Engine braking and locking the rear wheel on the 919? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Engine braking and locking the rear wheel on the 919?

is this even possible? I mean...on my CB1 which revs to about 13K, I can downshift and forcibly lock up the rear wheel when the road speed doesn't match the rear wheels spinning. Now on the 919...it has a much lower rpm range but sheesh.....it wont seem to do that. I mean...it'll rev up...but never actually "lock" the rear wheel on the pavement.
Have any of you ever locked the rear wheel when downshifting on the 919?

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post #2 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
is this even possible? I mean...on my CB1 which revs to about 13K, I can downshift and forcibly lock up the rear wheel when the road speed doesn't match the rear wheels spinning. Now on the 919...it has a much lower rpm range but sheesh.....it wont seem to do that. I mean...it'll rev up...but never actually "lock" the rear wheel on the pavement.
Have any of you ever locked the rear wheel when downshifting on the 919?
Why pursue hack downshifting that has an inherent safety element within it ?
Sounds like the pursuit of folly to me.

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post #3 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not necessarily wanting to cause this...I'm simply noticing that on my other higher reving Honda, it did that when I didn't down-shift to match the road speed and wondering what the mechanical parameters were that doesn't cause this on the 919?
thats all. Not wanting to cause, just curious as to what makes this happen, or not.

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post #4 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
I'm not necessarily wanting to cause this...I'm simply noticing that on my other higher reving Honda, it did that when I didn't down-shift to match the road speed and wondering what the mechanical parameters were that doesn't cause this on the 919?
thats all. Not wanting to cause, just curious as to what makes this happen, or not.
Generally, higher static compression ratio engines aggravate the condition.
And the greater the total ratio of engine RPM to Wheel RPM, the worse it is.
Clutch release ramping factor can help or hinder, generally the narrower the engagement band, the worse it is.
Clutch facing materials are yet another factor.
Higher clutch ratings are often associated with materials that by nature are grabbier.
Higher clutch spring force also makes clutches grabbier on fast release.
Ultimately, it all boils down to the combination of engine braking force and drive train slippage when there is a mismatch of engine revs to wheel revs.
Tire grip and all the involved rotating inertias also come into play.

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post #5 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Generally, higher static compression ratio engines aggravate the condition.
And the greater the total ratio of engine RPM to Wheel RPM, the worse it is.
Clutch release ramping factor can help or hinder, generally the narrower the engagement band, the worse it is.
Clutch facing materials are yet another factor.
Higher clutch ratings are often associated with materials that by nature are grabbier.
Higher clutch spring force also makes clutches grabbier on fast release.
Ultimately, it all boils down to the combination of engine braking force and drive train slippage when there is a mismatch of engine revs to wheel revs.
Tire grip and all the involved rotating inertias also come into play.

ummm....ok. Now can you put all that in laymans terms so I can understand it.
I get the material, release factors, ratings etc...but in simple terms. Pretend you are explaining it to a 5 year old....that's me.
just talk to me in simple terms without being condescending (had to add this last statement cause I've been responded to before as though I'm a 5 year and retarded) so just explain the concept in simple terms.

I appreciate your effort in trying to explain it but I still don't get why on my CB1 (revs to 13K) and it's a 1990 bike with old tech, why the rear wheel will grab hold of the road at a mismatched rpm and skid a bit and yet, that "effect/sensation" is non-existent in the 919?
is it the 919s lower rpms?
is it that the clutch system is built differently?
just wondering.

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post #6 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
ummm....ok. Now can you put all that in laymans terms so I can understand it.
I get the material, release factors, ratings etc...but in simple terms. Pretend you are explaining it to a 5 year old....that's me.
just talk to me in simple terms without being condescending (had to add this last statement cause I've been responded to before as though I'm a 5 year and retarded) so just explain the concept in simple terms.

I appreciate your effort in trying to explain it but I still don't get why on my CB1 (revs to 13K) and it's a 1990 bike with old tech, why the rear wheel will grab hold of the road at a mismatched rpm and skid a bit and yet, that "effect/sensation" is non-existent in the 919?
is it the 919s lower rpms?
is it that the clutch system is built differently?
just wondering.
This is re a 400 cc CB1, correct?
That is good for maybe 120 mph and weighs about 80# less than a 919 and is on a skinnier rear tire?
A rear tire that I am guessing could be old, aged out, and maybe worse yet run at a higher pressure than it should be for decent grip but enough for the carcass to still feel and be stable?
Now for some quick math.
13,000 CB1 vs 10,000 re 919
120 mph CB1 vs 140 919
For sake of simplicity, assume tire ODs are same or very close.
This means the CB1 has 40% more engine revs per mph than the 919.
(13000/10000 x 140/120= 1.4)
So to match up a mismatched engine RPM to wheel RPM, means the situation is 40% worse for the CB1.
The CB1 also has about a full point of higher static compression.
The CB1 bike is significantly lighter. (re rear tire loading to maintain grip)
The tire contact patch is smaller and if aged will also have poor grip.
(Unknown is whether this is happening while also on the front brakes or not, re front dive = weight transfer off the rear tire)
It's a blend of everything, but the short story is this:
There's not enough cushioning effect between the rear wheel and the engine to stay within the grip limits of the rear tire when the rear wheel is trying to accelerate the drive unit rotational speed - the engine unit component primarily.
(Some tranny elements are trying to be accelerated while others are trying to be decelerated.)
I know this is not as simple as you hoped, but hopefully it helps you along - perhaps even triggering more thoughts and questions.
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post #7 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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This is re a 400 cc CB1, correct?
That is good for maybe 120 mph and weighs about 80# less than a 919 and is on a skinnier rear tire?
A rear tire that I am guessing could be old, aged out, and maybe worse yet run at a higher pressure than it should be for decent grip but enough for the carcass to still feel and be stable?
Now for some quick math.
13,000 CB1 vs 10,000 re 919
120 mph CB1 vs 140 919
For sake of simplicity, assume tire ODs are same or very close.
This means the CB1 has 40% more engine revs per mph than the 919.
(13000/10000 x 140/120= 1.4)
So to match up a mismatched engine RPM to wheel RPM, means the situation is 40% worse for the CB1.
The CB1 also has about a full point of higher static compression.
The CB1 bike is significantly lighter. (re rear tire loading to maintain grip)
The tire contact patch is smaller and if aged will also have poor grip.
(Unknown is whether this is happening while also on the front brakes or not, re front dive = weight transfer off the rear tire)
It's a blend of everything, but the short story is this:
There's not enough cushioning effect between the rear wheel and the engine to stay within the grip limits of the rear tire when the rear wheel is trying to accelerate the drive unit rotational speed - the engine unit component primarily.
(Some tranny elements are trying to be accelerated while others are trying to be decelerated.)
I know this is not as simple as you hoped, but hopefully it helps you along - perhaps even triggering more thoughts and questions.
much appreciate the lesson.
the CB1 I have has brand new tires. they aren't old or cracked but they are slimmer than the 919s tires.
I sorta understand, especially about the front braking part. but I haven't been sensitive enough or been paying attention enough to notice if the slippage on the rear tire occurs when I hit the front brakes harder than normal....I do know that when I mis-match the gear i'm in to the road speed, the rear tire "will" grip then skid as though to inform me that "hey, you either need to speed up or slow down on the gearing/speed for us to be matched"....................again, thanks.

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post #8 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 02:08 PM
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You're over thinking this, lol.

In short, yes its possible and easy to do on the 919. Don't recommend trying on the street though. You just need to have a higher speed dropping down to a much lower speed.

I would lock up/ skip the rear wheel all the time if I didn't rev match close enough dropping from 4th gear at 90+ mph to 2nd while braking hard down to 25-30 mph on the mini straight coming into turn 13 which dips downhill and bank left at the Ridge track.

At my last 2-3 track days, I stopped trying to rev match so closely and let the rear skip a bit as I braked hard and down shifted into 2nd. I ended up having better times.

So yes, its easily doable. The biggest thing is how close the ratios are from 3rd to 6th gear are Compared to 2nd and 3rd or even 4th gear.

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post #9 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
You're over thinking this, lol.

In short, yes its possible and easy to do on the 919. Don't recommend trying on the street though. You just need to have a higher speed dropping down to a much lower speed.

I would lock up/ skip the rear wheel all the time if I didn't rev match close enough dropping from 4th gear at 90+ mph to 2nd while braking hard down to 25-30 mph on the mini straight coming into turn 13 which dips downhill and bank left at the Ridge track.

At my last 2-3 track days, I stopped trying to rev match so closely and let the rear skip a bit as I braked hard and down shifted into 2nd. I ended up having better times.

So yes, its easily doable. The biggest thing is how close the ratios are from 3rd to 6th gear are Compared to 2nd and 3rd or even 4th gear.
Au contraire, bon ami
The key to track days 919 downshifting is using your left hand to substitute for the lack of a slipper clutch.
Super smooth downshifts can easily be realized with some good setup and some finesse.

SETUP
I used a F4i clutch lever bracket with shorter reach from bar to pivot bolt, with CRG set to # 1 to get the lever in closer, to very nicely match my finger length and get finer lever control by having more finger "curl" at the engagement point.
That permitted much better control of the engagement during downshifts.

FINESSE
I just slowed down the lever release rate in the actual engagement point zone.
(Which caused me to realize those soft stock clutch springs are actually an advantage and not a disadvantage! Combine that with clutchless upshifts from 2 -6, and suddenly, talk of heavier clutch springs becomes daft.)

RESULTS
It worked really well, and I do mean really well.
And there is less input into the chassis as well, so less unsettling of the suspension.
Plus, the left hand motions became more in common with the right re amount of hand extension and range of motion.
Hands much more in harmony.

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post #10 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 03:33 PM
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@vintage do you track your cb1 ?

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post #11 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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not yet....but I'm still hopeful that someday I could.
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@vintage do you track your cb1 ?

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1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Au contraire, bon ami
The key to track days 919 downshifting is using your left hand to substitute for the lack of a slipper clutch.
Super smooth downshifts can easily be realized with some good setup and some finesse.
Sorry if I came across as disagreeing with you, that wasn't my intent. I do agree that super smooth downshifts can be done.

I was trying to point out to vintage that yes its possible with the 919 with some sloppy rev matching. It's just harder to notice with the 919 because of how wide the power band is and how closely geared the transmission is from 3rd to 6th gear. To really bring out the requirement of good down shifting on a 919 would be in a track environment unlike the street. And even then, the 919 is very laid back when it happens. It's such a stable and predictable chassis, even if it's a bit numb feeling at times.

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post #13 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 06:27 PM
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Sorry if I came across as disagreeing with you, that wasn't my intent. I do agree that super smooth downshifts can be done.

I was trying to point out to vintage that yes its possible with the 919 with some sloppy rev matching. It's just harder to notice with the 919 because of how wide the power band is and how closely geared the transmission is from 3rd to 6th gear. To really bring out the requirement of good down shifting on a 919 would be in a track environment unlike the street. And even then, the 919 is very laid back when it happens. It's such a stable and predictable chassis, even if it's a bit numb feeling at times.
LoL, it's all good.
And for sure, a 919 can be made to skid the rear wheel on downshifts.

This reminds me of something.
Laconia Classic, Loudon, 1978.
About 15 of us went there from Burlington Ontario, everyone on their bike.
I can't remember the turn # that the fast guys in the 750 class were coming down from high speed before a fairly tight slowright.
They would float their rear wheels and go down their gears before gently dropping the rear down just before turn it.
Imagine that downshifting!
And finessing it all so the chassis was settled on both wheels before turning in.
Gary Nixon was nothing short of awe inspiring to watch, his floaters were the highest!
Thanks for bringing back that memory!!!!!
He was on Erv K's Kawi triple.

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post #14 of 28 Old 08-09-2017, 10:15 PM
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The rear wheel will chatter when the engine braking forces are greater than the grip available. If I just let the clutch out from idle into first going 60 mph, the rear tire will probably chirp once and that's it. If I'm mashing the front brake, there's obviously no weight on the rear, so no grip and you are rewarded with a lovely chatter from the rear wheel and probably half a second onto your lap time

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post #15 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
LoL, it's all good.
And for sure, a 919 can be made to skid the rear wheel on downshifts.

This reminds me of something.
Laconia Classic, Loudon, 1978.
About 15 of us went there from Burlington Ontario, everyone on their bike.
I can't remember the turn # that the fast guys in the 750 class were coming down from high speed before a fairly tight slowright.
They would float their rear wheels and go down their gears before gently dropping the rear down just before turn it.
Imagine that downshifting!
And finessing it all so the chassis was settled on both wheels before turning in.
Gary Nixon was nothing short of awe inspiring to watch, his floaters were the highest!
Thanks for bringing back that memory!!!!!
He was on Erv K's Kawi triple.


I cannot fathom that, honestly. Must of been quite a sight. I don't think I'll ever be at that caliber/ level of riding skill. Hell I can't even loft the front wheel due to fear of flipping. I'd really like to get into the 250/300 racing class at some point.

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post #16 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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......... Hell I can't even loft the front wheel due to fear of flipping. I'd really like to get into the 250/300 racing class at some point.
and THERE in lies my problem as well. I spent way too much F*&()K!ng money on this stupid hobby to go out and pretend to be Johnny Cage and jump 100 helicopters across a football field...

I love my bikes and I'll push it to a 'certain' limit but I wont trash the damn thing on purpose.

Maybe when I someday go to a track session with some beatup old CBR600 or another CB1 I'll learn a bit more skills and figure out what my limit really is.

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1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 08:20 AM
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and THERE in lies my problem as well. I spent way too much F*&()K!ng money on this stupid hobby to go out and pretend to be Johnny Cage and jump 100 helicopters across a football field...

I love my bikes and I'll push it to a 'certain' limit but I wont trash the damn thing on purpose.

Maybe when I someday go to a track session with some beatup old CBR600 or another CB1 I'll learn a bit more skills and figure out what my limit really is.
Ha! Just take your 919 and have fun. It'll long outride you in the beginner class. You'd have to intentionally do something really stupid to thrash your 919.

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post #18 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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yeah, well....again....way way too much money according to my standards of what "too much money" is to even think about putting the 919er on the track.
No worries, maybe for my 60th birthday I'll ask the misses to buy me a track day. By then (which is not that far away) I'll prob have gone thru another 3 or 4 more other bikes and may even have a spare lying around to use as the track weapon of choice.
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Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Ha! Just take your 919 and have fun. It'll long outride you in the beginner class. You'd have to intentionally do something really stupid to thrash your 919.

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1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
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2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
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post #19 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
and THERE in lies my problem as well. I spent way too much F*&()K!ng money on this stupid hobby to go out and pretend to be Johnny Cage and jump 100 helicopters across a football field...

I love my bikes and I'll push it to a 'certain' limit but I wont trash the damn thing on purpose.

Maybe when I someday go to a track session with some beatup old CBR600 or another CB1 I'll learn a bit more skills and figure out what my limit really is.
I have two deals in place:
#1 to with my dear wife : no getoffs allowed or your track days end.
#2 with myself :
A I am brittle now and healing means how much you lose not how long it takes to get back to what you were.
B I can't make $$ at it and will never be Ross's team mate, let alone beat him.
C I don't want to bin my pride and joy.

So, I ride in a reserved way.
That's the same as your "certain limit", as compared to "the limit".
"The Limit" is often passed by a big scare or a getoff, leaving one to wonder where "The Limit" really is.
I work on technique, smoothness, set up, staying inside the grip zone, incremental improvements and keeping my head on straight while I'm having huge fun and getting a nice buzz.
My age actually helps as I am much calmer now, I'm much more relaxed and methodical riding than my foolish zero knowledge based efforts of the mid 70s when I crashed a number of times.
ANYTHING can be ridden and remain rubber down/bubble up if it's approached that way.
The above approach also lends itself towards incrementally building up "the limit".

There's infinitely more to fear and be cautious of road riding, than there is doing a track day with the right mental approach.

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post #20 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
yeah, well....again....way way too much money according to my standards of what "too much money" is to even think about putting the 919er on the track.
I honestly feel bad for you as you missing out on the greatest event in the world due to an imaginary monetary constraint you have fabricated in your head.

Back in the day I would take my carbon fiber clad RC51 laden with one off prototype parts that could never be replaced and get the strangest looks when I went through the tech line in the morning. Some would even ask me incredulously if I were actually going to ride it on the track and even more so when they realized it was in the Advanced Group. To not ride it would be a much greater problem for me than crashing it as it is just wasting away at anything less than using it to the best of my ability.

I've owned bikes in which the front end alone (wheel, brakes and forks) I had installed were worth more than the initial cost of the motorcycle off the showroom floor. Not once did I ever allow that to reduce my enjoyment of riding the bike.

It would serve no purpose other than vanity or maybe narcissism to spend money like that and then not use it. Ranks right up there with those retarded people that buy expensive plates to put in the china cabinet then die without ever eating a single bite off of them only to have their children sell of them in a garage sale for .25 cents each.
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post #21 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Like I stated, perhaps when I have beat up extra 3rd bike that I haven't diddled with for 3 years and made better I'll look into a track day.
For now, I'm not King Midas and don't have neither the abundant monetary nor time that the rest of you seem to find.

My life right now is winding up to make sure my TWIN.....(did you read that TWIN) teenage sons have a college to go to and have sufficient funds for which to stay in. We have invested heavily in real estate over the last 15 years and only now it's coming to break even......again, no funds there either.
I'm my own boss, employer, engineer, accountant, architect, QC rep...etc... and have NO time for the "ME" selfishness at the moment.

If I go to my grave tomorrow I'll be perfectly content knowing that I had the pleasure of riding one or two motorcycles in my lifetime and enjoying them to their fullest but a track day is not in the top of my bucket list right now....it's somewhere round no. 50 or 75 amongst a list of 100+ items.
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I honestly feel bad for you as you missing out on the greatest event in the world due to an imaginary monetary constraint you have fabricated in your head.

Back in the day I would take my carbon fiber clad RC51 laden with one off prototype parts that could never be replaced and get the strangest looks when I went through the tech line in the morning. Some would even ask me incredulously if I were actually going to ride it on the track and even more so when they realized it was in the Advanced Group. To not ride it would be a much greater problem for me than crashing it as it is just wasting away at anything less than using it to the best of my ability.

I've owned bikes in which the front end alone (wheel, brakes and forks) I had installed were worth more than the initial cost of the motorcycle off the showroom floor. Not once did I ever allow that to reduce my enjoyment of riding the bike.

It would serve no purpose other than vanity or maybe narcissism to spend money like that and then not use it. Ranks right up there with those retarded people that buy expensive plates to put in the china cabinet then die without ever eating a single bite off of them only to have their children sell of them in a garage sale for .25 cents each.

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Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #22 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 05:25 PM
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some people say that track days are a waste of money, or too expensive. i say buying a motorcycle with track day capability and not going is the real waste of money

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post #23 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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well. to each his own right.
every rider has his/her own reason why they bought the bike they bought.
some bought a bike for cruisin'.
some for posin.
some to impress the ladies......
some to soley use it for track.
some to solely use it for commuting.
some, well, just because they can and have unlimited funds to have a good bike sit in front of them to stare at.

eventhough a bike "CAN" be put on the track doesn't mean it was necessarily purchased with that initial intent in mind. Eventually folks that get into this distraction think they may want to see what a "track day" is all about but not all.

Every rider is different and different strokes for different folks....right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanktm View Post
some people say that track days are a waste of money, or too expensive. i say buying a motorcycle with track day capability and not going is the real waste of money

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #24 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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I, personally would want to take my CB1 on the track first before I take any 919 out there.

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #25 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
I, personally would want to take my CB1 on the track first before I take any 919 out there.
There is less than nothing wrong with that!
I'll bet that'd be a nice bike to try it out on.
Go for it!

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post #26 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageHunter View Post
well. to each his own right.
every rider has his/her own reason why they bought the bike they bought.
some bought a bike for cruisin'.
some for posin.
some to impress the ladies......
some to soley use it for track.
some to solely use it for commuting.
some, well, just because they can and have unlimited funds to have a good bike sit in front of them to stare at.

eventhough a bike "CAN" be put on the track doesn't mean it was necessarily purchased with that initial intent in mind. Eventually folks that get into this distraction think they may want to see what a "track day" is all about but not all.

Every rider is different and different strokes for different folks....right.
I wanted a modern day UJM.
A decades later update of my SOHC CB750.
Something that does it all, as UJMs did.
That gave a nice passenger post for my wife with real world footpeg location and not something reminisce of a gynecologist's examination room.
That didn't have a big fat exhaust can where the passenger's leg goes.
That didn't weigh too much.
That didn't cost a fortune.
That was at least a 750.
That had handlebars.
That a centre stand could be fitted to.
That had a decent front brake.
That had wheel sizes in common with good sport tires.
Gosh, there was only one bike that fit the bill at the time, a 919!
And a good UJM is inherently trackable, it might not be viceless in that respect, but still trackable.
Oh yes, and something I could tinker with ........................

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post #27 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 07:49 PM
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I can respect your viewpoint VintageHunter, but only because I can see it is totally flawed by your lack of experience even with all your years applied to it. I am not slighting you here, just merely being blunt as time is short and I just had oral surgery yesterday so please do not take offense. I'm just trying to further the topic in the most meaningful way possible and I believe this is the shortest path to that outcome.

If you had actually done a trackday on your 919 you would not only know the answer to your original question in posting this topic to the forum, but you would also know how ignorant the question really is not to mention incorrect and inherently risky. All excessive engine braking really does is upset the chassis delaying response time and even minor use of engine braking causes very accelerated rear tire wear. The latter has been explicitly discussed prior on this forum.

Ultimately, you stand a much better chance of risking accident or injury on a street ride than you ever will on a trackday. You are still in control of the bike regardless of where you are riding and the throttle always goes both directions, but the trackday not only offers more surface grip than a public road, but also a controlled area devoid of cars and obstacles, ample safe area in the case of run-off and medical personnel on site as well. Everybody going in the same direction alone is worth the price of admission over the street, but the most important aspect of track riding is that you will learn more in 1 day of track riding than you will in 10 years of street riding. That is not hyperbole. Everyone here that has ever done a trackday will attest to the same. It really is the most educating thing a rider can do to further their skill set and intimacy with their motorcycle or riding in general.

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post #28 of 28 Old 08-10-2017, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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No offense taken.
I get it. I'm no Rossi on the track nor the street and have never professed to being one either.

I was just merely observing a characteristic that occurs on my CB1 and doesn't occur on my 919.
It had been sorta answered with the close gear to gear arrangement on the 919 but i was in no way shape or form trying to initiate that "rear wheel lock up". Just trying to understand why it doesn't happen on the 919.

that's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I can respect your viewpoint VintageHunter, but only because I can see it is totally flawed by your lack of experience even with all your years applied to it. I am not slighting you here, just merely being blunt as time is short and I just had oral surgery yesterday so please do not take offense. I'm just trying to further the topic in the most meaningful way possible and I believe this is the shortest path to that outcome.

If you had actually done a trackday on your 919 you would not only know the answer to your original question in posting this topic to the forum, but you would also know how ignorant the question really is not to mention incorrect and inherently risky. All excessive engine braking really does is upset the chassis delaying response time and even minor use of engine braking causes very accelerated rear tire wear. The latter has been explicitly discussed prior on this forum.

Ultimately, you stand a much better chance of risking accident or injury on a street ride than you ever will on a trackday. You are still in control of the bike regardless of where you are riding and the throttle always goes both directions, but the trackday not only offers more surface grip than a public road, but also a controlled area devoid of cars and obstacles, ample safe area in the case of run-off and medical personnel on site as well. Everybody going in the same direction alone is worth the price of admission over the street, but the most important aspect of track riding is that you will learn more in 1 day of track riding than you will in 10 years of street riding. That is not hyperbole. Everyone here that has ever done a trackday will attest to the same. It really is the most educating thing a rider can do to further their skill set and intimacy with their motorcycle or riding in general.

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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