Electric bikes....who needs 'em! - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-16-2010, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Electric bikes....who needs 'em!

Anyone else excited about electric bikes? I have to admit I was sckeptical, and thought they were dumb. But seriously, eventually electric is the only way to go after we hit that time when hydrocarbons run out (likely not in my lifetime) Just wondering what others opinions were on the subject.

The last issue of RoadRacing World has a good write up on a team making an electric race bike. And a few months ago motorcyclist wrote an article about the Isle of Man TTX GP bikes that had me planning on going back to shcool to get an electrical degree. Thee new tech is facinating. Maybe not actually so new tech, just new to use gearheads that don't like our ming partss to be invisible to the naked eye (electrons). Only down side is, no more porting heads, swaping cams, raising comp.....

The thought of being able to ride like a maniac and produce little to no more noise than a bicycle is also pleasing to me.

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post #2 of 30 Old 03-16-2010, 02:11 PM
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the motor technology is there... the battery technology is not IMO. The batterys just weigh tooo much. That being said electric power is simply amazing, i have a big ole 1/8th scale RC car with a big block gas motor making 2.8hp the thing rips even though it weighs a good 15+ lbs. I also have a small 1/10th scale electric buggy with a brushless motor... the thing weighs at least 3x less... yet produces 3.5hp... its almost too much to drive the power is INSTANT, and i can be driving it along at 1/2 throttle (like 50mph) and gun it and it literally does a back flip. Needless to say once i went brushless electric motors and lithium batteries in my rc cars i will NEVER EVER go back to nitro gas rc cars. There is just no point, its lighter more powerful and much easier to use.

That being said the batteries and performance just dont scale up like they do with a gas motor. Its kinda like this with regards to anything electric vehicle .... range: performance :weight .... choose two.

IE nissian Leaf - good range, good weight... not so much performance
Tesla Roadster - good weight, good performance, crap range.

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post #3 of 30 Old 03-17-2010, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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I agree. But there is more potential now than ever. Keep in mind a great grandparents didn't know if as was going to be the main stream. It could have been electric or steam just as easily.

I guess one of the other things that gets me excited would be the opertunities to get into the game at nearly ground level. At the risk of overgeneralizing, I'm sure people thought Vic Edelbrock was a little off when he first started his thing. Some may say aftermarket electric stuff is impossible. Others might make millions doing it.

I guess I just get excited over new (different) stuff very easily.

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post #4 of 30 Old 03-17-2010, 07:00 PM
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the thing that gets me excited is the almost instant power. it will be a while yet before the batteries are small enough to give you good low weight and good range, but there are people feverishly working on it, I can guarentee you that. someday they will be the norm.

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post #5 of 30 Old 03-17-2010, 07:13 PM
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oh ya i have no DOUBT if it does take off... aftermarket electric stuff will become a HUGE HUGE market... just like it is in RC cars.

what we need is a mini nuclear reactor bout this size of a current motor to power an electric motor ahhahah.

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post #6 of 30 Old 03-17-2010, 07:14 PM
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I'm excited to have an option that will combine the thrills of riding in a more environmentally responsible vehicle. It's not quite there yet, but I'll be inline once its cheap and practical enough. Something for the everyday city commutes, so I can save my carbon credits for the weekends on a more powerful machine that goes a helluva lot farther than any electric bike can now.

Sure will miss the rumble of a combustion engine though, but the trade off is worth it in my mind.

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post #7 of 30 Old 03-17-2010, 07:41 PM
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I'm 54. Doubt I'll ever live to see an electric that could ever match the thrill of any liter bike I've ever ridden. Best to live in the ascension of a "civilization" than it's decline. Electrics to me are definitely in sync with 'decline'.

的 said I never had much use for one.
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post #8 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 07:55 AM
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I'm 54. Doubt I'll ever live to see an electric that could ever match the thrill of any liter bike I've ever ridden. Best to live in the ascension of a "civilization" than it's decline. Electrics to me are definitely in sync with 'decline'.
+1

I have ridden both the Zero and Quantya electric dirt bikes at Perris Raceway and Competitive edge...both fairly flat places...and while they were "fun", they were a long way off from a real MX bike. I asked the same question to the guys from both Companies, which was; do you think your machine could make it one lap around Glen Helen's National track? You could tell this was the question they were hoping no one would ask by the look on their faces. At this point in time they are just fun little novelties that have to ride/race on "special" (read smooth and flat) race tracks...Kind of like that motorized skateboard that somebody posted up last week.
I'm with Bigdaa on this one. Electric bikes are definitely a sign of a civilization in decline....you know, "as long as we keep lowering are standards, we'll be happy" kinda thing, and thats bullshiit!
I might ride an electric bike on the street (and thats a mighty slim "might"), but I will never ride one off road!
I'm glad I'm old so I don't have to see the future.

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post #9 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 08:26 AM
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I don't care about electric this, hybrid that. What I want is performance. If you can give me an electric sport bike that will run 60+ MPH for 180 miles, then fully recharge in the amount of time required to pump 4.5 gallons of gas, I'll ride it.

What I don't understand about this whole 'green' movement is that 20 years ago, cars were already fuel efficient. My 1992 Honda Accord was getting in the mid to high 30 miles per gallon. That was with 250,000+ miles on it and me flogging on it like it owed me a bunch of money. Today, car companies brag about having X number of cars that get 30+ MPG Highway. Heck my two 5.3L V8s get in the high teens.

If we were really concerned about 'green' they'd figure out what is different between cars 15 - 20 years ago and now and find out why no progress has been made. My guess is all this safety crap that weighs a ton. Speed limits are lower than they were 40 years ago but we have to keep wrapping ourselves in more and more bubble wrap.

People who are truly green probably ride scooters. What else goes 45 MPH and gets 100 MPG?

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post #10 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 08:36 AM
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Whoa! Very elloquent, Murph. I agree.

I'd go clean diesel long before I'd go hybrid or electric.

As far a green goes, does that take into account all toxic chemicals in batteries? Does it take into account all the hydrocarbons emmited by coal fired electric generating plants?

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post #11 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 09:26 AM
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People who are truly green probably ride scooters. What else goes 45 MPH and gets 100 MPG?
I think I could ride one of these around town. Madass 125. 85 miles to a tankful (1.22gl.) and a cruising speed of 55mph plus twinn head lamps and undertail exhaust!
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 09:36 AM
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I think I could ride one of these around town. Madass 125. 85 miles to a tankful (1.22gl.) and a cruising speed of 55mph plus twinn head lamps and undertail exhaust!
OK, that little mother f--ker rocks! (or at least "looks" like it rocks)

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 10:00 AM
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I don't think it's just a matter of going green, at least not for me. it's just a matter of embracing new technology, which I usually don't. but at some point electric bikes will have an advantage over gas in some aspects, not all aspects, and not for a long time, but at some point they will after many many more break through's with the technology needed for that to happen.

just think if the interenet was around 100+ years ago and people could have talked about the crazy idea of using gasoline instead of steam.

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post #14 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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Remember: The technological breakthrough must be in the power storage device. That's it. Motors of great efficiencies exist now. You want to make a little yingum, come up with a proportional throttle device that will allow incremental reductions in throttle opening to immediately begin recharging the storage system, thus increasing system efficiency. This will consist of sensors and data processing as well as software algorithms to translate electronic feedback into real world known internal combustion system characteristics. Engine braking, baby.

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post #15 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 10:46 AM
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I think I could ride one of these around town. Madass 125. 85 miles to a tankful (1.22gl.) and a cruising speed of 55mph plus twinn head lamps and undertail exhaust!
I think you should ship me one free of charge for a few months and I'll let you know how it works out. I'd ride it. Does it wheelie?

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post #16 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 01:03 PM
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I think you should ship me one free of charge for a few months and I'll let you know how it works out.
I'll get right on that for you Chris. Are you sure you only want one?
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I'd ride it. Does it wheelie?
It will with me on it!
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 01:22 PM
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All I know is gas powered rc cars/trucks suck compared to their electric counterparts. If the auto and motorcycle manufactures get the battery charging and storage technology up to where it needs be I will never buy another gasoline or diesel powered vehicle in my life.

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post #18 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 01:44 PM
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It will with me on it!
Impressive!

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post #19 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 03:19 PM
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...If we were really concerned about 'green' they'd figure out what is different between cars 15 - 20 years ago and now and find out why no progress has been made. My guess is all this safety crap that weighs a ton. Speed limits are lower than they were 40 years ago but we have to keep wrapping ourselves in more and more bubble wrap...
Exactly! Look at a Mark 1 VW Golf and compare that to the later generations. The first GTI was a cracker of a car, small, light and fast. Top Gear shootout between the Mk1, Mk4 and other hatchbacks, in which the Mk1 Golf won.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjoDRI1ppXk&NR=1

We have ABS, air bags, ESC, power steering, aircon, etc, etc. The authorities then have the gall to say that the road toll has come down due to reductions in speed limits and enforcement, bullshit, its due to cars getting safer and safer.

As for electric powered vehicles, I'll ride, drive one when it matches gas engines in performance, range and refueling.

If everyone switches do electric vehicles, will the cost of electricity stay the same? Electricity will also be taxed heavily just as gas is taxed now.

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post #20 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 03:33 PM
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Unless the outlets in your house are hooked to a dedicated solar panel or wind turbine its just a "displaced" emmission machine. I know the ones in my house aren't. Everyone talks about the "grid" not being able to meet current demand. I can't wait until everyone starts plugging their car in everyday.

There is a test in the current Cycle World about an electric bike. The range & recharge is a joke. Thats my biggest hangup. Performance & just pure motorcycledom (as I see it, which is that matters to me) are next in line.

If you want one buy one. Don't force it on me or use my tax money to finance yours.

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post #21 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 03:48 PM
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Unless the outlets in your house are hooked to a dedicated solar panel or wind turbine its just a "displaced" emmission machine.

Agreed. Around Kentucky, if you get an electric car that just means more coal burnt. We'll cave in one of these days..... literally.

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post #22 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Wow. So many different good points. I wish I could put my 2 cents in on every one fo them. But that would take all night.

Battery tech. I think more effort should go into getting them to charge faster than getting them to hold more energy. A very small amount of breaking energy goes back into the batter. If 100% of breaking could go back into the batteries, holy cow!, they would go on a full charge for a very long time. The only lost energy would be from the friction needed to maintain speed. Put it this way, if 100% of breaking went into batteries, your city mileage would be the same (actually better due to lower top speeds) than highway steady state driving.

I never said anything about green. Pretty sure electric cars, at the moment, are far more poluting than current IC powered cars. From craddle to grave a priuse puts out moe carbon emessions than a Land Rover. Think about what goes into getting all those presious metalss for the batteries. Mines far away from the processing plants, and those processes far way from the battery making, and that far away from the car builder. And those metals are likely very limited in quantity. More limited than oil, don't know, but it sure wont be cheap if this stuff catches on.

The grid not being able to handle it. FOR SURE! That is why I concider every day finding a new job in the electric buisness. Its a growing source of energy supply and its already infirior to what our needs currently are. Let alone 5 to 10 years from now.

Its obviouse why car mileage sucks now in relative terms. Its not just safety crap that the man pushes on us because everyone has to sue when the car crashes and we think it should be someone elses falt. Itss also because people demand dead quite interiors necesitating lots of insulation. Heaven forbit our car has less gadgets than our living rooms or kitches. And lets not forget how much faster cars are now. We've just been putting our tech into makking cars faster instead of makign them more fuel effecient. Take the same tech that is in the next gen mustang (412 hp) but keep it at 1985 levels (200hp) and I'm sure it would get significantly better mileage than what it gets now.

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post #23 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 06:33 PM
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Its obviouse why car mileage sucks now in relative terms. Its not just safety crap that the man pushes on us because everyone has to sue when the car crashes and we think it should be someone elses falt. Itss also because people demand dead quite interiors necesitating lots of insulation. Heaven forbit our car has less gadgets than our living rooms or kitches. And lets not forget how much faster cars are now. We've just been putting our tech into makking cars faster instead of makign them more fuel effecient. Take the same tech that is in the next gen mustang (412 hp) but keep it at 1985 levels (200hp) and I'm sure it would get significantly better mileage than what it gets now.
My Accord I mentioned earlier would still do an actual 120 MPH...how much faster do you really need to go in your daily driver?

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post #24 of 30 Old 03-18-2010, 06:33 PM
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All I know is gas powered rc cars/trucks suck compared to their electric counterparts. If the auto and motorcycle manufactures get the battery charging and storage technology up to where it needs be I will never buy another gasoline or diesel powered vehicle in my life.


I saw your name then I more understood your reply. Sid is dead.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-19-2010, 08:11 AM
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Impressive!
Thanks.
I can still wheelie pretty good for an old fart, but nowhere near as good as I could almost 30 years ago when that pic was taken.

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post #26 of 30 Old 03-19-2010, 09:01 AM
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I think the only way an electric bike (or car) will ever be accepted is using hydrogen fuel cells instead of batteries. You then would not have to change anything about the way you use the vehicle. Just pull into the fuel station when you need fuel, fill up, and head back out on the road. Any vehicle that required more than a few minutes to "re-fuel" (charge) or has a range of less than 200-300 miles between re-fueling will never be accepted. IMHO

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post #27 of 30 Old 03-19-2010, 10:14 AM
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I think the only way an electric bike (or car) will ever be accepted is using hydrogen fuel cells instead of batteries. You then would not have to change anything about the way you use the vehicle. Just pull into the fuel station when you need fuel, fill up, and head back out on the road. Any vehicle that required more than a few minutes to "re-fuel" (charge) or has a range of less than 200-300 miles between re-fueling will never be accepted. IMHO


Yup. I'm with you on this one OFG, even though my crew cab has a pretty tough time getting up around 250 miles on it's 26 gallons.

的 said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
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post #28 of 30 Old 03-19-2010, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Your bike goes 300 miles between fueling?!!!!!!!!!!!

Just being a smart ass. I totaly agree with you. Hydrogen seems like the only real alternative. Of coarse the car is still electric.
The only thing i wonder is, how good can we get at making hydrogen as fuel? Gotta burn (or blow, or pour, or split some atoms) from some other fule source to process the hydrogen source and then compress the hell out of it. So how effecient would a hydrogen car really be if you take into account the energy used to "make" the hydrogen.

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post #29 of 30 Old 03-22-2010, 09:19 AM
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I saw your name then I more understood your reply. Sid is dead.
Nope, Sid is alive and kickin. By the way Sid is an electirc Rc truck!

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post #30 of 30 Old 03-22-2010, 10:36 AM
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I've decided what I'm going to do. I'm gonna eat a BUNCH of beans and run my 919 on natural gas.

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