Coming back to a 919? Or something else? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 39 Old 03-15-2020, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Question Coming back to a 919? Or something else?

Hey all,

It has been several years since I sold my 919, and I'm coming around to wanting another naked. That said, there's not too much that really excites me these days as I'm looking for a fun bike to enjoy for a few hours on some back roads for a time.

The closest thing to a purchase is probably the R Nine T Pure - it has a nice visceral feel and classic looks (I like round head lamps). That said, it costs more, has many more electronics and systems to consider, and I'm not sure if for the price I'd love the ride as much as my old '02 919. As I recall, my Honda was dead simple, dead reliable, and a lot of fun.

One thing I love about both th 919 and the R Nine T are the looks - kind of throw back with those big round headlamps. I'm not into the origami designs.

I'm wondering if anyone else has seat time between the two - any thoughts or suggestions?

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post #2 of 39 Old 03-15-2020, 01:30 PM
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Another one you may consider that seems to possibly fit your parameters is the Honda CB1100.

Honda reliability, simplistic design/technology but newer than the 919.
And can probably pick up a nice example in the $5k range.

https://www.collegebikeshop.com/--xI...ail?id=7784902

It is air cooled, but power specs are close. Looks like HP may be a bit down to the 919, but a bit more or similar torque.
Looks like it does an adequate job in the handling department for semi-spirited riding, but probably not quite as sporty as the 919.

https://youtu.be/zPPUKp_CsFI

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post #3 of 39 Old 03-15-2020, 01:41 PM
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And there’s always the Z900RS for the throwback look.

But it is probably going to be similar to the BMW in terms of price and technology.
Would just be a matter of preference.

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post #4 of 39 Old 03-16-2020, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I owe it to myself to try a CB11100. It reads like a great bike and I've seen the 1:1s with the R9T, but it is more retro looking than I'm after. People seem to take them the cafe racer route.

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post #5 of 39 Old 03-16-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saki GT View Post
Yeah, I owe it to myself to try a CB11100. It reads like a great bike and I've seen the 1:1s with the R9T, but it is more retro looking than I'm after. People seem to take them the cafe racer route.
How do you feel about the Z900RS?

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post #6 of 39 Old 03-16-2020, 06:10 PM
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I like my 919 but if I had replace it it woudl be something different--plenty of great bikes out there, so no need to repeat.

The CB1100 is absolutely electric, but heavy & I think a clunky shifter. Lopes down the road even with the 5 speed (after the first year they gave it a 6 speed anyway). The tank looks square from the riders perspective (13-14s) & for some reason that freaks me out. Park the 919 & CB1100 side by side & people will flat out push over the 919 & stand atop it to gaze at the CB1100 & ask you all sorts of questions or tell you stories about a bike they used to have like that. The air cooling is so odd in modern day you want to have it, plus no coolant to change.

The Z900RS is similar to the 919 in power but a little more snappy at the throttle in low revs (keep in mind I have a 17t on my 919 though). The sound is the best stock exhaust I have ever heard, & by modern standards LOUD. I woudl not dream of replacing the stock exhaust. Unfortunately for me the bike is TALLLLL. The tank looks bulbous from the riders view (919 looks best from riders view).

Never ridden a beemer but that is the way I would go. Why? See my first sentence--never tried one. Really like the entire R series & the 9T line. Shaft drive is my #1 checkpoint as I tire of chain maintenance.

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post #7 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
How do you feel about the Z900RS?
Not a huge fan of the fairing honestly. I really like the exposed naked look.

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post #8 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
I like my 919 but if I had replace it it woudl be something different--plenty of great bikes out there, so no need to repeat.

The CB1100 is absolutely electric, but heavy & I think a clunky shifter. Lopes down the road even with the 5 speed (after the first year they gave it a 6 speed anyway). The tank looks square from the riders perspective (13-14s) & for some reason that freaks me out. Park the 919 & CB1100 side by side & people will flat out push over the 919 & stand atop it to gaze at the CB1100 & ask you all sorts of questions or tell you stories about a bike they used to have like that. The air cooling is so odd in modern day you want to have it, plus no coolant to change.

The Z900RS is similar to the 919 in power but a little more snappy at the throttle in low revs (keep in mind I have a 17t on my 919 though). The sound is the best stock exhaust I have ever heard, & by modern standards LOUD. I woudl not dream of replacing the stock exhaust. Unfortunately for me the bike is TALLLLL. The tank looks bulbous from the riders view (919 looks best from riders view).

Never ridden a beemer but that is the way I would go. Why? See my first sentence--never tried one. Really like the entire R series & the 9T line. Shaft drive is my #1 checkpoint as I tire of chain maintenance.
Since the 919 I've been on a couple Triumphs, and most recently an America (cruiser), so I want to move back to a neutral position, or be over the pegs. The R Nine T seems very much like the 919 from memory - good torquey grunt, and the dry clutch has a bit of a gritty feel which is nice. Only down side is price, but you also get ABS, and can get OEM heated grips.

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post #9 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saki GT View Post
Not a huge fan of the fairing honestly. I really like the exposed naked look.
Same for me, but it's only the Cafe version that has the fairing.
If I had the coin and the space, I'd be buying one, in the original brown/orange colour scheme.

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post #10 of 39 Old 03-17-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saki GT View Post
Yeah, I owe it to myself to try a CB11100. It reads like a great bike and I've seen the 1:1s with the R9T, but it is more retro looking than I'm after. People seem to take them the cafe racer route.
It’s a bike I would like to have as a second bike.
But I’m not really in a position for that.
I could work it out, but 4 kids in the house.
Maybe when they all grow up I’ll get multiple bikes.
Still have too much of a thirst for speed and really good twisty road handling.

My first bike was a 1979 Suzuki GS1000E and I really wish I still had it.
It reminds me a lot of it and I bet it has many of the same characteristics just modernized.
But I moved across the country when I got married and so I gave it to my dad. Only paid $300 for it and he helped me getting it running really well.
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post #11 of 39 Old 03-18-2020, 09:01 AM
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In 2015 i tested a BMW R1200R and it was an updated 919. The good things were that it had ABS and all the electronics because it's 10+ years newer, and the seat and the handlebar, really, they were much more comfortable. The "bad" things were the vibrations from the boxer and the price.


"i don't ride that way, just posing"



I also tested a XSR900 and it was very similar in power, more agile, better brakes, but way more uncomfortable. Not a better bike for me (pillion is a must).


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post #12 of 39 Old 03-18-2020, 04:58 PM
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I have an 03 919 that I'll make you a great deal on. Has a few dings, but it's a solid bike...Texas 75711

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
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post #13 of 39 Old 03-19-2020, 03:03 AM
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IMO, you should price out a bike like the Z09 or whatever else meets all the specs, then compare that price to the 919.

So if you find that the bike you spec out is $6K, then you find a 919 for $3K, that'll give you $3K budget to bring it to the specs you want.

So if it's a suspension, valve adjustment, brakes, etc... can you get all that done on the 919?

I've see some very clean 919 that have several choice upgrades in the $3~4K range. If you add in maybe $1K worth of upgrades, then you'd have something very comparable to the Z09 or BWM, Monster or whatever.

Personally, I've seen 919 with the rear shock and other upgrades in the $3K range, so they're out there.

I think the agreed downsides of the 919 are the suspension, lights and fuel control. Get one with the rear shock already done and a PCIII, then upgrade the forks for the F4i, add a $100 headlight and you're in.
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post #14 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 06:17 AM
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If you have to spend $3000 on a motorcycle to "bring it up to spec", you've bought the wrong motorcycle; unless you just enjoy wasting money that you'll never get back, and wrenching on 13+ year old clunkers.

After I bought my first KTM, I saw the light about buying cheap Jap fixer-uppers.

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post #15 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 09:10 AM
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I'm not sure calling the 919 a cheap jap bike is right, but I would agree that spending 3k on a 3k doesn't sound smart. However, I'd argue a 3k 919 with 3k in mods is a better bike than anything you'll get for 6k unmodded.

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post #16 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 03:43 PM
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I personally, at this point, would want any future bikes to be ready to ride, especially for an only/primary bike.
Unless it was a project for something for me to work on.

That being said when I bought my 919, it was my first bike in about 20 years (and second bike overall).
Like many motorcycle owners, I am not a mechanic (home or real/paid) but decently mechanically inclined, and can figure out some things if there are good instructions available.

In that respect the 919 I got was perfect for me at the time and for getting back into riding and learning some fundamentals of motorcycle maintenance.
I think I paid $2,500 for it and probably put another couple thousand into it.
Didn’t recoup it all, but was a worthwhile experience for me at the time.

Things I did within the first couple thousand miles:
Oil change, Spark plugs, K&N air filter, Chain and sprockets (15/43), Wheel bearings, Power Commander III and Custom map/accelerator pump settings, New tires, Tech Spec tank pads, GIVI brackets and top case.

Had I kept it longer, as I developed more riding skill/experience (and learned more about the importance of suspensions) probably would have eventually wanted to have some suspension work/upgrades done.
Which probably would have been another thousand or so, depending on what was done.

I know eventually, given enough time and miles, all bikes need maintenance (and usually find some upgrades/options/accessories that you end up wanting).
Just don’t think going forward I want to buy an older model that needs a bunch right from the get go.

My current bike had 3500 miles when I bought it and probably at least $3000 of highly desirable mods, done by an experienced owner who knew what they were doing.
Best way to buy a used bike IMO, if they are mods you would plan on doing or would want to do.
They put the money into it and you pay a fraction (if any) of the cost.
I got it for $500 less than the next closest priced one I could find at the time (expansive search), and it was bone stock.
Motivated seller who needed to sell it for big life changes (going into business for himself).

The used (but newer) bikes where the owner realizes it is too much bike or they don’t enjoy riding; after they mod it up nicely, put less than 1000 miles on it and have the first service done, can be great bargains if you have time to wait for the right deal and the cash ready to buy it.

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post #17 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 04:15 PM
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I paided $3000 for my 919 and spent at least $3000 on upgrades and mods.
The bike is perfect for me now and I'd do it all over again.
I like the 919. It does everything I need it to do. Extremely reliable and simple.
At the moment if I had to replace my 919 it would probably be with another 919. I got $3000 worth of mods I can put on it! And a shed full of spare parts.
Next choice would be a Z900rs. In black of course.
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post #18 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
If you have to spend $3000 on a motorcycle to "bring it up to spec", you've bought the wrong motorcycle; unless you just enjoy wasting money that you'll never get back, and wrenching on 13+ year old clunkers.

After I bought my first KTM, I saw the light about buying cheap Jap fixer-uppers.
I take a very different view on this. Pretty much every car/truck/bike that I own, I bought as cheap as I could and it's turned out great.

Example: one of my trucks was very rusty and had engine problems. I did a full frame off resto and now have exactly the engine, trans, paint, etc that I want. I know the engine is new, I know the cam, carb, heads, crank, everything because I built it exactly the way I wanted it.

The same with my other truck and most of my cars. I say most of the cars because one is a project and a good example.

The project car is a 1966 Mustang with no engine, trans, etc... The engine being prepped is a 5.0 HO roller with an AOD trans. This is the engine I wanted, and it's the engine that I have. When finished, it'll be a candy apple red, 66 mustang with a 5.0 HO, AOD with suspension upgrades and stock look on the outside. This is what I want (except it's not a convertible).

Buying a car/bike/truck dirt cheap, leaves you with the money to build the engine, suspension, etc that YOU want.

With the 919, you spend from a few hundred to a few grand and you get the bike you want.

In the end, the 919 is just a machine, it's a pump inside of a frame with wheels. You can buy a 'perfect' bike for $10K or you can spend $4~6K on a 919 and have a bike that will compare well to the 'perfect' bike. You'll probably save on insurance, DMV and you can fine tune the bike the way you want.

For the price of a great bike ~$8K... you can have an awesome, ultra dependable 919 with full suspension upgrade (front and rear), lighting, fuel control, etc... and be a head of the game by a few grand.

I've been doing this to cars, bikes, trucks for decades and it's very rewarding.

The thread finishing up right now is a 919 being fully reworked and it looks like it's going to be an amazing bike.
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...val-80743.html

He's not the only one to have done this, but look at the work being done... look at the parts he's got. Pretty soon, he's going to have this finished and I'm sure it'll be amazing.

The only thing that can make his bike better is to park it in my driveway . (somehow I doubt he'll store it in my driveway).

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post #19 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 06:16 PM
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Tell me how much money you'll get back out of your awesome, $8000 919, when you sell it.

And if you like fiddle-farting around with old junk, that's cool. A 919 is a fine motorcycle, until you ride something better. I'd rather ride than wrench.

I paid $7500 for an 848 Streetfighter. I replaced $120 worth of timing belts (that it probably did NOT need), other than that, nothing beyond what any Jap bike would need. It didn't need any upgrades, nor mods. Higher end bikes come completed. I've only had it for a couple of years, which is no indicator of longevity, but the newer Ducs have a decent rep. A couple of months ago, I could have probably gotten almost all my money back out of it. But since the dems have successfully destroyed the economy, who knows.

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post #20 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 06:36 PM
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I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but ultimately the decision is probably relative, based on a few factors.

If you have the time, tools, know how, and are approaching it as a labor of love then this is definitely a very fulfilling path.
Although generally, from an economic perspective usually can’t recoup all of the associated cost (and especially if you consider time value), and the total cost usually doesn’t align with market value (unless it is a highly desired vehicle).
But that usually isn’t the point in these projects as most of the time they are long term keepers.

Although newer vehicles likely have steeper depreciation costs over time also.

But if you want a vehicle that can be used from day one with no or minor initial maintenance needed, and the price/associated costs aligns more closely with market value, then something newer probably fits the bill a bit better.

Many people (probably most, myself included) approach vehicle ownership as a utilitarian device or fun toy, or combination of both.
And understand there are costs involved with ownership but try to minimize those costs as best they can within the parameters of how they want the vehicle to perform and what they desire to accomplish with it.
Toys obviously getting more discretionary funds thrown their way for “unnecessary” items.

I see the value in owning older vehicles. But don’t have the skills to rebuild one.
I daily drive an 03 4Runner with 180k miles, and will keep it until it stops running and can’t be repaired within reason.
Overall it is much cheaper than making continual car payments on new cars.
But it serves a utilitarian purpose.
That’s why it’s a Toyota.😉

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I take a very different view on this. Pretty much every car/truck/bike that I own, I bought as cheap as I could and it's turned out great.

Example: one of my trucks was very rusty and had engine problems. I did a full frame off resto and now have exactly the engine, trans, paint, etc that I want. I know the engine is new, I know the cam, carb, heads, crank, everything because I built it exactly the way I wanted it.

The same with my other truck and most of my cars. I say most of the cars because one is a project and a good example.

The project car is a 1966 Mustang with no engine, trans, etc... The engine being prepped is a 5.0 HO roller with an AOD trans. This is the engine I wanted, and it's the engine that I have. When finished, it'll be a candy apple red, 66 mustang with a 5.0 HO, AOD with suspension upgrades and stock look on the outside. This is what I want (except it's not a convertible).

Buying a car/bike/truck dirt cheap, leaves you with the money to build the engine, suspension, etc that YOU want.

With the 919, you spend from a few hundred to a few grand and you get the bike you want.

In the end, the 919 is just a machine, it's a pump inside of a frame with wheels. You can buy a 'perfect' bike for $10K or you can spend $4~6K on a 919 and have a bike that will compare well to the 'perfect' bike. You'll probably save on insurance, DMV and you can fine tune the bike the way you want.

For the price of a great bike ~$8K... you can have an awesome, ultra dependable 919 with full suspension upgrade (front and rear), lighting, fuel control, etc... and be a head of the game by a few grand.

I've been doing this to cars, bikes, trucks for decades and it's very rewarding.

The thread finishing up right now is a 919 being fully reworked and it looks like it's going to be an amazing bike.
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums...val-80743.html

He's not the only one to have done this, but look at the work being done... look at the parts he's got. Pretty soon, he's going to have this finished and I'm sure it'll be amazing.

The only thing that can make his bike better is to park it in my driveway . (somehow I doubt he'll store it in my driveway).

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post #21 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 06:45 PM
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Here's an important question for you: Are you ready for the BMW World? It is not just about the bike, but also about the company, its engineering, its support, and your local dealer.


I have a pristine '06 919. Very stock, and it works well for me without any significant improvements other that the 17/44 gearing recommended here. I can do the routine maintenance, and parts are reasonably priced. And there are some aftermarket options. I don't see my local Honda dealer very often.



Then I couldn't resist buying a clean '05 BMW R1200GS. I have Michelin road tires, and it is a fine long distance tourer for an old guy. Big boxer engine, lots of torque. Plenty of electronics and ABS. But the world of BMW parts, service, and accessory pricing is breathtaking. So here is what I would do first. Pick the year and model you want, and then look at the recommended dealer service intervals and their cost. Then go on bikebandit.com or similar, and look at BMW OEM parts pricing. Like $372 for stock OEM handlebars or $13 for a Torx handlebar mounting bolt.



If you are still standing, then the BMW is for you. I have never run into a local Honda motorcycle club, but the BMW fraternity takes their marque very seriously. I like my boxer, but it is from a different world.

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post #22 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 07:15 PM
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Timely, although in the car world.
My son wrecked my 01 Lexus IS300 and is now looking to buy his own car.

He is dead set on an E46 328/330i with a manual transmission.
I’m a Toyota fan boy so of course it concerns me.
They do appear to be fairly reliable once some of the common factory failure points have been replaced.
He’d go for a Toyota/Honda/Lexus/Acura, but finding RWD/AWD with a manual is nearly impossible, unless buying newer Japanese offerings with AWD.

He is being diligent and holding out as I told him it needed a perfect maintenance history, but even then anything beyond basic stuff that I can help him with he better be ready for sticker shock if something goes wrong.

Quote:
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Here's an important question for you: Are you ready for the BMW World? It is not just about the bike, but also about the company, its engineering, its support, and your local dealer.


I have a pristine '06 919. Very stock, and it works well for me without any significant improvements other that the 17/44 gearing recommended here. I can do the routine maintenance, and parts are reasonably priced. And there are some aftermarket options. I don't see my local Honda dealer very often.



Then I couldn't resist buying a clean '05 BMW R1200GS. I have Michelin road tires, and it is a fine long distance tourer for an old guy. Big boxer engine, lots of torque. Plenty of electronics and ABS. But the world of BMW parts, service, and accessory pricing is breathtaking. So here is what I would do first. Pick the year and model you want, and then look at the recommended dealer service intervals and their cost. Then go on bikebandit.com or similar, and look at BMW OEM parts pricing. Like $372 for stock OEM handlebars or $13 for a Torx handlebar mounting bolt.



If you are still standing, then the BMW is for you. I have never run into a local Honda motorcycle club, but the BMW fraternity takes their marque very seriously. I like my boxer, but it is from a different world.

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post #23 of 39 Old 03-20-2020, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I paided $3000 for my 919 and spent at least $3000 on upgrades and mods.
The bike is perfect for me now and I'd do it all over again.
I like the 919. It does everything I need it to do. Extremely reliable and simple.
At the moment if I had to replace my 919 it would probably be with another 919. I got $3000 worth of mods I can put on it! And a shed full of spare parts.
Next choice would be a Z900rs. In black of course.
Echo echo AND..........................you have a black one, while I have a brown/orange one!
Mine would not be stock for long.
How about yours?

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post #24 of 39 Old 03-21-2020, 01:58 AM
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But since the dems have successfully destroyed the economy, who knows.
Lol!

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post #25 of 39 Old 03-21-2020, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I paided $3000 for my 919 and spent at least $3000 on upgrades and mods.
The bike is perfect for me now and I'd do it all over again.
I like the 919. It does everything I need it to do. Extremely reliable and simple.
At the moment if I had to replace my 919 it would probably be with another 919. I got $3000 worth of mods I can put on it! And a shed full of spare parts.
My story too.

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post #26 of 39 Old 03-21-2020, 02:18 AM
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My Z900rs wouldn't be stock long.
Immediately fit a centre stand and perhaps a small windscreen.
Ride the snot out of it for a few months then tear into the suspension, rapidly followed by the entire exhaust system.
Sort out any fueling issues?
At some random point fit a small rear luggage rack.
That would be the first year.

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post #27 of 39 Old 03-21-2020, 07:33 AM
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My Z900rs wouldn't be stock long.
Immediately fit a centre stand and perhaps a small windscreen.
Ride the snot out of it for a few months then tear into the suspension, rapidly followed by the entire exhaust system.
Sort out any fueling issues?
At some random point fit a small rear luggage rack.
That would be the first year.


Akra' has a really nice full exhaust system that chops weight and adds some ponies.

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post #28 of 39 Old 03-21-2020, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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Here's an important question for you: Are you ready for the BMW World? It is not just about the bike, but also about the company, its engineering, its support, and your local dealer.


I have a pristine '06 919. Very stock, and it works well for me without any significant improvements other that the 17/44 gearing recommended here. I can do the routine maintenance, and parts are reasonably priced. And there are some aftermarket options. I don't see my local Honda dealer very often.



Then I couldn't resist buying a clean '05 BMW R1200GS. I have Michelin road tires, and it is a fine long distance tourer for an old guy. Big boxer engine, lots of torque. Plenty of electronics and ABS. But the world of BMW parts, service, and accessory pricing is breathtaking. So here is what I would do first. Pick the year and model you want, and then look at the recommended dealer service intervals and their cost. Then go on bikebandit.com or similar, and look at BMW OEM parts pricing. Like $372 for stock OEM handlebars or $13 for a Torx handlebar mounting bolt.



If you are still standing, then the BMW is for you. I have never run into a local Honda motorcycle club, but the BMW fraternity takes their marque very seriously. I like my boxer, but it is from a different world.
Lol yes this is very nearly in line with my thinking.

For the record, I am coming fresh off a 14 year old Triumph - age of bikes does not worry me - they are very straightforward machines, and since I'm not tracking, its not like I go through a lot. I can also appreciate the simplicity of older stuff, and really I just want to be on something.

One of the reasons I am looking at 919s is that I like a lot about them, including the reliability and the look, and there are some decent used bikes with nice mods and about 10k mi for $3-4k. An R Nine T, even if you find a modded used one, is basically a $10k price tag, plus BMW pricing on everything after.

I do like the BMW rider group though. They've always been open for anyone that rides with them, and the local dealer is good, so I'm not against supporting them. The price delta is big enough that I could fill it with a second bike, if I wished.

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post #29 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 03:31 AM
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I donít disagree with what youíre saying, but ultimately the decision is probably relative, based on a few factors.

If you have the time, tools, know how, and are approaching it as a labor of love then this is definitely a very fulfilling path.
Although generally, from an economic perspective usually canít recoup all of the associated cost (and especially if you consider time value), and the total cost usually doesnít align with market value (unless it is a highly desired vehicle).
But that usually isnít the point in these projects as most of the time they are long term keepers.

Although newer vehicles likely have steeper depreciation costs over time also.

But if you want a vehicle that can be used from day one with no or minor initial maintenance needed, and the price/associated costs aligns more closely with market value, then something newer probably fits the bill a bit better.

Many people (probably most, myself included) approach vehicle ownership as a utilitarian device or fun toy, or combination of both.
And understand there are costs involved with ownership but try to minimize those costs as best they can within the parameters of how they want the vehicle to perform and what they desire to accomplish with it.
Toys obviously getting more discretionary funds thrown their way for ďunnecessaryĒ items.

I see the value in owning older vehicles. But donít have the skills to rebuild one.
I daily drive an 03 4Runner with 180k miles, and will keep it until it stops running and canít be repaired within reason.
Overall it is much cheaper than making continual car payments on new cars.
But it serves a utilitarian purpose.
Thatís why itís a Toyota.😉
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Although generally, from an economic perspective usually canít recoup all of the associated cost (and especially if you consider time value), and the total cost usually doesnít align with market value (unless it is a highly desired vehicle).
It's kinda hit and miss on the value. Many years ago, I read an economic analysis of this subject and they broke down all the costs. This includes total cost to fully own a new car/truck.

I can give you an idea of where some of these stand. The 66 Mustang I traded for labor, so the labor was about $1,800 and they now go for about $20K. I have about $1,000 into parts and maybe $2K in parts left to go, so about $5K and I've had about 10 years trouble free use out of it so far.

I have a HighBoy that I paid $1,200 for and probably $10K into it with quite a bit going into a 500HP engine and full frame off resto. I see them listed in the $20~50K range, but I don't think that's very realistic. So maybe $18~30K and I have some 20 years trouble free usage.

I have 2 280ZX's and they tend to go for about $4~12K and I paid $1,800 for one and traded a days labor for the other. Both complete running condition. One gave me about 12 years trouble free service.

I have several more. One I paid $800 for put $1K into it and got $8K out of it, but that was because of accidents but I bought it at about 20% of it's value because it had damage.

I paid $300 for a 68 pickup from a junkyard, put $1,200 into it and sold it for $5K after getting 15 years of service from it.

------------------------

It doesn't always work that way. Some have great value because of being smog exempt or become a "hidden classic"...

The 280ZX was really a classic at the time and was fairly cheap back then. Then people started collecting them and now you don't see them very often.

You never really know what's going to become a sought after classic.

As far as valuing your time, we all have hobbies. Someone can spend 200 hrs a month playing video games and not make a dime from it. It's not time that I took from regular work, so it wasn't a loss. I don't know that I would have done something much more valuable during that time. In other words, if you work full time and wrench on the weekend, how much was your time worth? If you weren't wrenching, would you have been watching TV, playing video games, browsing the web, painting the shed, walking the dog...

I have several roll-away tool boxes and two sheds packed full of vintage car/bike/truck stuff. It's something I like doing. Driving around in a 50 year old car/truck is cool, it stands out and it's a part of history.

IDK if the 919 will ever be a real classic. I was shocked to see my Nighthawk 700S was selling for more because I think the 919 is a much better bike.

A car/bike/truck usually hits a point where it doesn't go down in value any more... some, go up in value and just keep going up.

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post #30 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 05:36 AM
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Driving around in a 50 year old car/truck is cool, it stands out and it's a part of history. . .

A car/bike/truck usually hits a point where it doesn't go down in value any more... some, go up in value and just keep going up.
Yeah, I owned a 66 Cadillac for a few years.
It was cool that basically everyone waved at you, didn’t matter if you were in the inner city or way out it the sticks, always got waves.

I didn’t do any restoration on it though, it was a 10 footer when I got it (wasn’t perfect but looked solid from 10 ft).
Bought it for $7500, was a weekend cruiser for a few years, and then sold it for the same price.
Only costs were gas, oil, and insurance (cheap because it wasn’t a daily driver).


I was watching a bunch of the VinWiki YouTube channel a while back, and the exotic car depreciation curve is intriguing.
The owner of the channel appears to be well off but not necessarily wealthy, but yet owns quite a few exotics (not brand new) that he drives daily.
It is a great channel BTW, mostly just a bunch of 10 minute videos of different car guys telling a car story.

He has been in the industry and understands the depreciation curves on these cars very well.
And he buys examples that aren’t ragged out, but that have been driven often but maintained, so that he can put on miles without depreciating them over his cost.

Many of these exotics depreciate harder/faster than normal cars, but the downward slope is a much shorter time before it turns back up and they start appreciating.
You still have to be able to afford the monthly payment (or have the cash) and the maintenance (which isn’t as bad a you might think, unless you have a catastrophic failure of some kind).
But if you know when to buy them in their life cycle (and don’t have to have the brand newest) you can actually own relatively new exotics without huge depreciation losses, and actually sell them for more in many cases.

I know a lot of car YouTubers buy them as a business expense, make money off the ad revenue, and write off the depreciation losses.
But in most cases he is not losing depreciation and actually flips them for more money, and most of the cars are maybe 10 years old.
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post #31 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 06:22 AM
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I know a lot of car YouTubers buy them as a business expense, make money off the ad revenue, and write off the depreciation losses.
That's interesting... You can make a business out of flipping cars and make money from YouTube videos at the same time.


Nice looking Caddy! Hard to tell it's a 10 footer from the pics, but that's the nature of a 10 footer

I've studied economics for many years and one of the things about economics is that we keep raising the bar and this is one of the biggest problems facing people. I can illustrate by example:

A long time ago, I was going to build my own house. The general plan was to buy a pickup, a trailer, some land and instead of paying rent, you use that rent money to build the house over time. I went to the junk yard to buy a pickup and paid $300. I had the skills to rebuild the engine, body and paint, etc... I went back to the junk yard with a list of parts to replace/upgrade when they had the 1/2 off sale.

I ended up with a paint job that some thought was lacquer because of the mirror finish. The engine was new and ran like a top. Everything worked like it was new. I was into it about $1,200 or so for all the parts and paint.

If I had taken it to a shop and said "here, fix it up"... it would have been a complete loss. It would have cost maybe $10K or more and I sold it for $5K.


This is the way it works: When you hire someone to paint your car, fix a leaky pipe in the kitchen, re-roof the house, etc... You're paying for that person's retirement, taxes, mortgage, fuel, etc... The more people in the economic loop, the more it's going to cost you.

You buy a meal at a restaurant, you pay for the building, suppliers, health care, taxes, etc...

Cook the meal yourself, you avoid all those extra costs.

On the other side is specialization of labor. The roofer has years of experience, tools, etc... Maybe he gets a better price on the materials, etc... The odds of a mistake are much less.

When I re-roofed my house, it was dirt cheap. Owens was having a rebait, buy $X of materials and get a rebate. The more you buy, the bigger the rebate... I over bought to get the largest rebate and returned the unused and used a coupon when I bought it.

The rebate more than covered the tools needed and the roof is working awesome.

I've poured my own foundation, did 100% of the plumbing, wiring, driveway, roof, etc... I can build a house for about $20~30K of materials and nearly no help from anyone else.

From cars, trucks, bikes, electronics, houses, etc... you can save a TON by building/fixing yourself.

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post #32 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 06:31 AM
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That's interesting... You can make a business out of flipping cars and make money from YouTube videos at the same time.
Here is an interesting watch on the breakdown of how it works.
Keep in mind though that he has 2.75M subscribers.
And ultimately these channels are entertainment, so you have to have interesting content and be an “entertainer” to build your brand/business, which is a skill set that you must have/develop.
So it is work, but probably enjoyable work.

https://youtu.be/Sl-cq7V_obE

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post #33 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 07:00 AM
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Here is an interesting watch on the breakdown of how it works.
Keep in mind though that he has 2.75M subscribers.
And ultimately these channels are entertainment, so you have to have interesting content and be an “entertainer” to build your brand/business, which is a skill set that you must have/develop.
So it is work, but probably enjoyable work.

https://youtu.be/Sl-cq7V_obE
I'm actually working on starting a YouTube/podcast about mobile app dev and business/econ. It's a bear because you spend a LOT of time doing the prep work for something like this, but I have most of the equipment now and I'm just dialing things in.

I was considering a car/bike repair series as I think there's some good interest in it.

I know these people with > 500K subs are kicking butt. 1M is awesome and 2.75M is unreal.

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post #34 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 07:18 AM
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From cars, trucks, bikes, electronics, houses, etc... you can save a TON by building/fixing yourself.
My dad was like that.
He was a shop/ag teacher and had access to a nice shop with all kinds of tools and had the skills to match.

He completely remodeled our house by himself (1920s farm house) when I was growing up, of course I was his helper/gopher.
And always did all of his own work on his cars.

I wish I could do half the stuff he can do, but didn’t take the time to develop the skills.
Chose the corporate path for the first 20 years of my adult life and was a work-a-holic to “climb the ladder.”
I’m fairly handy compared to many modern adults, but not necessarily highly skilled.

Now that he is retired he likes to build furniture as a hobby.
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post #35 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 07:32 AM
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My dad was like that.
He was a shop/ag teacher and had access to a nice shop with all kinds of tools and had the skills to match.

He completely remodeled our house by himself (1920s farm house) when I was growing up, of course I was his helper/gopher.
And always did all of his own work on his cars.

I wish I could do half the stuff he can do, but didnít take the time to develop the skills.
Chose the corporate path for the first 20 years of my adult life and was a work-a-holic to ďclimb the ladder.Ē
Iím fairly handy compared to many modern adults, but not necessarily highly skilled.

Now that he is retired he likes to build furniture as a hobby.
You don't see that kind of stuff any more. I just watched that video you linked to. He made $48,400 from the videos of one car and that was just the ads as best I can tell. The other thing is that that looked like those videos were about 1 year old on average. The thing about unearned income is that you continue to make money from them.

I did a bit of research over the last few months and some of these people would post like 20 videos and have ONE that would bring in hundreds EVERY MONTH. So if he was at $48,400 last year, he could be near double that at this point.

I understand he's got a TON of viewers, but even if it were just $400.00 a month from one video over the course of 4 years, that's a LOT and you're not doing any more work.

That's one of the reasons I'm doing the mobile app dev thing, you put out an app, and it's kinda like the videos where you can make money long after the work is done.

One of the things I'll be doing is a "behind the scenes" showing just how much you can make and I'm even releasing business frameworks for mobile enterprise software development. This is one of my specialities.

It's really amazing that people can make so much from posting YT videos. I had no idea it would be like that, and I was one of the first to sign up for YouTube back in the day. I don't think I'm that exciting of a person, so I'm sure I wouldn't have made that much

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post #36 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 11:14 AM
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YouTube Videos.... They all want you to hit that Like and Subscribe button. I watch them in the evening, while I'm winding down for the day. Hickok 45 is one of them. He's just a good ol boy, easy going; kind of like hanging out with your shooting buddy without ever leaving the couch. But I've learned NOTHING from watching Hickok 45. Kind of wild to think someone can make a bunch of money shooting water bottles at close range.

Toyotas.... you can't beat them. Sugarpuss drives an '03 Cellica with 285,000+ miles on it. Still drives tight. Doesn't use any oil. Still looks good. Little boys think it's a Ferrari.

From my perspective, I'm fortunate. I make a very good wage. I enjoy what I do. I can, and usually do, work a lot of overtime. That gives me the ability to hire people to paint, and roof, and other tasks, at half the money that I make at my job. The people I hire are skilled at their trade. There'll be many fewer mistakes than if I put my "Jack of all Trades" hat on, and do it myself. Plus, I simply do not enjoy roofing, painting, or wrenching on motorcycles, as much as I do my own job.

It's not my aim to piss anyone off. Everybody's situation is different. I always say:The only hard and fast rule is, There are NO hard and fast rules. What works for you, may not work for me, and vice versa. Moderation In All Things has served me well.

But back to motorcycles.... if you had a 919 years ago, and sold it, why would you buy another? There are so many really cool, different motorcycles that do whatever a 919 can do, and do it better. Why do the same thing again? There was a reason you sold the last one, remember? If you've owned a 919 for 10+ years, the previous statement doesn't apply to you. I didn't think I'd ever find another bike that I like better than my '08 990 Super Duke, which I will never (foreseeable) sell. The 848 Streetfighter comes real close to being as good of a fit for me as my old KTM.

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post #37 of 39 Old 03-22-2020, 11:16 AM
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If you know you liked a bike, it takes the guesswork out of knowing if you'll like it. I'd definitely try to test out a lot of. Bikes, but you'll be hard pressed to find something as good as a 919 for the money you can get them for atm.

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post #38 of 39 Old 03-23-2020, 03:25 AM
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YouTube Videos.... They all want you to hit that Like and Subscribe button. I watch them in the evening, while I'm winding down for the day. Hickok 45 is one of them. He's just a good ol boy, easy going; kind of like hanging out with your shooting buddy without ever leaving the couch. But I've learned NOTHING from watching Hickok 45. Kind of wild to think someone can make a bunch of money shooting water bottles at close range.

Toyotas.... you can't beat them. Sugarpuss drives an '03 Cellica with 285,000+ miles on it. Still drives tight. Doesn't use any oil. Still looks good. Little boys think it's a Ferrari.

From my perspective, I'm fortunate. I make a very good wage. I enjoy what I do. I can, and usually do, work a lot of overtime. That gives me the ability to hire people to paint, and roof, and other tasks, at half the money that I make at my job. The people I hire are skilled at their trade. There'll be many fewer mistakes than if I put my "Jack of all Trades" hat on, and do it myself. Plus, I simply do not enjoy roofing, painting, or wrenching on motorcycles, as much as I do my own job.

It's not my aim to piss anyone off. Everybody's situation is different. I always say:The only hard and fast rule is, There are NO hard and fast rules. What works for you, may not work for me, and vice versa. Moderation In All Things has served me well.

But back to motorcycles.... if you had a 919 years ago, and sold it, why would you buy another? There are so many really cool, different motorcycles that do whatever a 919 can do, and do it better. Why do the same thing again? There was a reason you sold the last one, remember? If you've owned a 919 for 10+ years, the previous statement doesn't apply to you. I didn't think I'd ever find another bike that I like better than my '08 990 Super Duke, which I will never (foreseeable) sell. The 848 Streetfighter comes real close to being as good of a fit for me as my old KTM.
Good point. I've only ridden 2 different bike aside from the safety class bike. I can't say that I wouldn't like another bike better, I'd actually like to try.

I've heard nothing but good things about the 990 Super Duke. I'd like to try the Z09, Monster and a few others someday.

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post #39 of 39 Old 03-23-2020, 06:56 PM
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I've ridden a Z09. Rompin stompin engine. The build quality is so-so; Meaning: rubber brake lines, crummy suspension, snatchy fueling. In other words, a typical mid price Jap bike.

My friend's Street Triple, which is several thousand more $$$$, is pretty much the same type/concept as the Z09, but you don't have to replace a bunch of parts. I've never seen a negative review of a Street Triple.

There are so many really good bikes out there right now. I've bought used, since the 04 919. Buy in the fall. Ride it for a year and a half. When you re sell it, you lose almost nothing. I love buying nice used motorcycles.

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