Clinton years vs Bush years - Wrist Twisters
View Poll Results: Would you rather relive the Clinton years or the Bush years?
President Clinton, 1992 - 2000 17 41.46%
President Bush, 2000 - 2008 24 58.54%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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Clinton years vs Bush years

I'm sure this won't cause any controversy...

Given the choice, and ignoring your personal feelings for both individuals, would you rather relive the 8 years that Bill Clinton was President, or the 8 years that George Bush has been President?

I'm strictly talking about how they did their job, their accomplishments while in office if you will. Consider how their policies affected our economy, think about each one's dealings with the rest of the world, think overall big picture.

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post #2 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:08 AM
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I vote for Jimmy carter

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post #3 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:13 AM
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Thats such a loaded BS question it isnt funny.

Look at what hand each was dealt! One was starting with a relatively decent economy... and state of affairs...

The other took over a bag of flaming crap spiralling into a bad scene.

IMHO

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post #4 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest View Post
Thats such a loaded BS question it isnt funny.

Look at what hand each was dealt! One was starting with a relatively decent economy... and state of affairs...

The other took over a bag of flaming crap spiralling into a bad scene.

IMHO
+1, not even worth the debate.




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post #5 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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To each their own, sure there's a ton of variables, but you can still have an opinion.

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post #6 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:41 AM
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I voted for Abe Lincoln soley based on his quote in my sig.

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post #7 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:46 AM
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+1, not even worth the debate.
+1 looks like my vote just tied it up.

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post #8 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 10:41 AM
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Good poll, Scott! It's close.

I went with Bush simply because of how he carries himself--all variables aside. Conceited? Yeah. Decisive? Hell, yeah. Waiting for some poll results to decide how he should act? Not on your life, buddy. He's got cajones. I voted in this poll for the guy who, no matter what you think of him, you know exactly where he stands. Pretty rare in a politician... And he's loyal (to a fault), even more rare in a politician.

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post #9 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 10:48 AM
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I think the question leaned to heavily on the which 8yrs would you rather have again.

Certainly Bush's term would not be picked just because of the war and results of 9/11! Finances stumbled... etc...

But does it make him less of a President? I think thats the question your getting to!

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post #10 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest View Post
But does it make him less of a President? I think thats the question your getting to!
Yes it does, Bush is a tool.



IMHO

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post #11 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 10:56 AM
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You're right, Mid. If it's okay with Scott, I'll expand it a little to get the embers glowing.

And, I gotta add this to draw a distinction between "personal" feelings about either guy...

It doesn't get more personal than when an elected official, particularly the highest-ranking elected official of the land, lies to the very people he swore to represent. Was a knob-polishing enough reason to get impeached? Of course not. That's not why he became only the 2nd one to have to add that distinction to his CP. He received that "honor" because he wasn't man enough to admit it. On tv. In front of HIS nation. Vehemently. That's gotta count against him, right?


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post #12 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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I know that the Clinton years were relatively tame compared to what Bush faced shortly into his first term. Of course it can also be argued that much of the strife he's had to deal with has been of his own making.

I expected that few could put aside their personal feelings since both Presidents have had a such polarizing effect on America. I really just wanted to know who you thought was a better President, if somehow you could put aside all the outside trauma and deep rooted likes or dislikes.

Thanks to Brevity for an honest answer, even if I may not agree. I can respect someone for their convictions and not like them, Ronald Reagan was a good example of that for me. Hated him at the time since I was an activist college student in those days. Now as I reflect back as a middle aged man, I see that he was a decent man who truly believed in what he was doing, even if I still don't totally agree with all of his policies.

As far as Clinton's lying under oath, I agree that cannot be condoned. Some of us feel quite strongly that Bush has lied as well, and about far more serious matters. Not that it makes it right, but Bill certainly wasn't the first man to lie about getting a bj from a fat girl, it just so happened that he was President at the time and should never have put himself in that situation.

I'll still take the Clinton years, warts and all, over the Bush years. That's my opinion, it's ok that I feel that way, and it's cool that others feel differently. Hence the poll.

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post #13 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 11:14 AM
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But what about the Clinton years while getting his pole polished he wasnt watching the world and led us right into the Bush issues?

Did he leave us in a better state than he came to us?

Sure things are bad now... but Bush walked into a huge pile of dung... like Asyncs photo - (why does he have pictures of crap anyway? Odd fetish for sure!)

I always liked Regean... and always thought it was funny when he would get bad mouthed while in office. Some people just like to throw darts and bitch and moan. Others, like to actually DO SOMETHING about the current state of affairs and go get something done. Be it right or wrong causes... they do. We voted them in... and knew what they were about. Now you complain because he's doing it?

Had you known Bill was a womanizing pig... would you have voted him in?

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post #14 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 11:57 AM
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I couldn't in good faith vote for a Clinton for anything anywhere.
Bill got into office while things were good, and really didn't do anything while there other than get his knob polished.
He ignored the world other than lob a few misiles into countries, get a bunch of our guys killed in Somilia and then not have the balls to finish the job.
Then as he was leaving office we were headed into a resession which Bush walked into, and then 911, Bush was never given a chance, but he was still able to get me a heck of a tax break.

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post #15 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest View Post
Thats such a loaded BS question it isnt funny.

Look at what hand each was dealt! One was starting with a relatively decent economy... and state of affairs...

The other took over a bag of flaming crap spiralling into a bad scene.

IMHO
Ya, this is a bullshiot pole to say the least. sbeau1960 deserves no more pussy for as long as he lives. Get used to man-o's buddy!

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post #16 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V65rider View Post
I couldn't in good faith vote for a Clinton for anything anywhere.
Bill got into office while things were good, and really didn't do anything while there other than get his knob polished.
He ignored the world other than lob a few misiles into countries, get a bunch of our guys killed in Somilia and then not have the balls to finish the job.
Then as he was leaving office we were headed into a resession which Bush walked into, and then 911, Bush was never given a chance, but he was still able to get me a heck of a tax break.
Didn't do anything except for significant welfare reform, strides in education, health care and crime reduction, lower unemployment, as well as moving the Federal deficit from a record high 290 billion dollars in 1992 to a surplus of 230 billion dollars in 2000.

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post #17 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 12:17 PM
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Hey look! It's a picture of async holding a George Bush flag.

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post #18 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa View Post
Ya, this is a bullshiot pole to say the least. sbeau1960 deserves no more pussy for as long as he lives. Get used to man-o's buddy!
Way to stick with the spirit of giving opposing opinions a fair shake and avoiding personal attacks Bigdaa.

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post #19 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V65rider View Post
...get a bunch of our guys killed in Somilia and then not have the balls to finish the job.
we can say this about almost every skirmish/police action/whatever we've been in since wwII.
too many (1 = too many) of our men die only for the objective never to be obtained. These stinkin places are breeding grounds for anti American terrorists that we choose to occupy, lose a bunch of good people, then come home only for nothing to have changed long term. I'm sick of it. Sh!t or get off the pot! Do it completely & tell the naysayers to go F themselves or don't even start at all.

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post #20 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
we can say this about almost every skirmish/police action/whatever we've been in since wwII.
too many (1 = too many) of our men die only for the objective never to be obtained. These stinkin places are breeding grounds for anti American terrorists that we choose to occupy, lose a bunch of good people, then come home only for nothing to have changed long term. I'm sick of it. Sh!t or get off the pot! Do it completely & tell the naysayers to go F themselves or don't even start at all.
+1

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post #21 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
we can say this about almost every skirmish/police action/whatever we've been in since wwII.
too many (1 = too many) of our men die only for the objective never to be obtained. These stinkin places are breeding grounds for anti American terrorists that we choose to occupy, lose a bunch of good people, then come home only for nothing to have changed long term. I'm sick of it. Sh!t or get off the pot! Do it completely & tell the naysayers to go F themselves or don't even start at all.
Well said gpz!

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post #22 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
I'm sick of it. Sh!t or get off the pot! Do it completely
Here, here, GPZ! I agree whole-heartedly. Wars should not be fought with kid gloves. Korea was a waste of American blood because it was never prosecuted to the fullest extent. Ditto Vietnam. Gulf War? That was well-prosecuted, but finished poorly, leaving a dictator in charge that started the whole mess and invited us back for Round II. Afghanistan and Iraq? Well-intentioned (getting rid of terrorists=good) and POORLY prosecuted.

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post #23 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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Say what you want about Bush ,As far as I am concerned he carried a big stick and he hit back with it. My biggest beef is the lack of focus towards a successful resolution of Iraq , The invasion went off without a hitch but now we have lost focus with what was supposed to be the "easy" part.

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post #24 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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The USA kicks ass at overthrowing hostile governments, we just suck at nation building. It was easier back in the day when a simple assassin's bullet would take the place of an entire invading force. Not spoken like the left wing lilly liberal y'all had me pegged as huh?

Yeah, I carry a gun, licensed of course. I tend to vote Democratic, except for Senator Dick Lugar, best man in Washington. See it's possible to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, I can still want to help the underprivileged and have a balanced budget, I can be be for welfare reform and still have a heart. You can favor a strong military without wanting to invade desert countries we have no business messing with, I can support our troops and still want them to be out of that God forsaken place. It doesn't have to be all one way or another, it's not black and white, it's all shades of gray damnit!

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post #25 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 06:12 PM
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With Clinton and his wuss dealings with Bin obomba is one thing, His shagging like a Kennedy is another.... For all his faults ( I hated the SOB)
He did a hell of a lot less in pissing on our rights and on the constitution of this great land.

Disclaimer... I was a Bush flag flyer till he tapped my phone, lied to me, put an asshole in charge of the internet (Not Gore)

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post #26 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 06:28 PM
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"successful resolution of Iraq"
don't even get me friggin started

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post #27 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 07:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
The USA kicks ass at overthrowing hostile governments, we just suck at nation building.

HOW MANY NATIONS HAVE WE EVER BUILT?

It was easier back in the day when a simple assassin's bullet would take the place of an entire invading force. Not spoken like the left wing lilly liberal y'all had me pegged as huh?

Yeah, I carry a gun, licensed of course.

SO?

I tend to vote Democratic,

WHY NOT JUST VOTE FOR THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB?

except for Senator Dick Lugar, best man in Washington. See it's possible to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative,

OH REALLY? SHOW ME WHAT COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET THAT LINE OF THINKING HAS EVER MADE SUCCESSFUL!

I can still want to help the underprivileged

SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE LIBERAL. "PLEASE LOOK AT ME, I REALLY WANT TO HELP UNDERPRIVILEGED PEOPLE, NOT THAT I ACTUALLY DO, BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT YOU THINK I TRULY WANT TO!

and have a balanced budget, I can be be for welfare reform and still have a heart.

I REJECT YOUR PREMISE. SINCE WHEN WERE THESE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE? MY CHURCH, IN A TOWN OF +/- 15,000, FEEDS AND HOUSES HOMELESS MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN (INCL. FOSTER CARE), HAS A BENEVOLENCE CENTER, PREACHES PRO-LIFE AND HAS A PREGNANCY CARE CENTER, PROVIDES FREE MEDICAL CARE ON-CAMPUS, ALL ON A BUDGET OF 2M A YEAR, AND WE HAVE NOT 1 RED CENT OF DEBT. WE ALSO BAPTIZE OVER 300 PEOPLE A YEAR IN THE NAME OF CHRIST, SO I GUESS IT'S SAFE TO SAY WE HAVE A HEART. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING WE ARE HYPER-CONSERVATIVE, SO THAT KINDA BLOWS HOLES IN EVERY CLICHE YOU CAN COME UP WITH ABOUT CONSERVATIVES, DOESN'T IT? DOES YOUR CHURCH DO THAT? DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT DO THAT?

You can favor a strong military without wanting to invade desert countries we have no business messing with,

NEW YORK TIMES DRIVEL, COME UP WITH SOMETHING ORIGINAL.

I can support our troops and still want them to be out of that God forsaken place.

THIS IS SUCH A GIANT FALACY FROM THE LEFT. OUR TROOPS CHOOSE TO BE THERE, WE DON'T HAVE A DRAFT. MANY INSIST ON RETURNING FOR MULTIPLE TOURS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN THE MISSION. LOGIC DICTATES, THEREFORE, THAT IF YOU SUPPORT THEM, YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THEIR MISSION, AND IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT THEIR MISSION, YOU DON'T SUPPORT THEM, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE THERE. YOU CAN'T SEPARATE THE TWO.

It doesn't have to be all one way or another, it's not black and white,

SAYS WHO?

it's all shades of gray damnit!
DID YOU EVER STOP TO THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE IN THE "GRAY", YOU ARE REAPING THE RESULTS (ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED) OF YOUR OWN CHOICES?

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post #28 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevity View Post
You're right, Mid. If it's okay with Scott, I'll expand it a little to get the embers glowing.

And, I gotta add this to draw a distinction between "personal" feelings about either guy...

It doesn't get more personal than when an elected official, particularly the highest-ranking elected official of the land, lies to the very people he swore to represent. Was a knob-polishing enough reason to get impeached? Of course not. That's not why he became only the 2nd one to have to add that distinction to his CP. He received that "honor" because he wasn't man enough to admit it. On tv. In front of HIS nation. Vehemently. That's gotta count against him, right?

If Bush lied about anything, then why did Clinton have a nuclear melt-down trying to keep that movie about the events that led to 9/11 from airing? Why was his chief-of-staff convicted of stuffing papers down his pants and walking out of the National Archives?

Bush lied? Please, that is such kindergarten playground pabulum. The libs are back in charge of Congress, why don't they start impeachment hearings if that's the case?

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post #29 of 56 Old 01-14-2008, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Frazer View Post
DID YOU EVER STOP TO THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE IN THE "GRAY", YOU ARE REAPING THE RESULTS (ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED) OF YOUR OWN CHOICES?
Please explain what that means for I have no idea. Don't we all hope to reap the results of our choices, no matter what our political leaning? Isn't that why we make choices in the first place, so that we can try and reach a goal of how we think things should be?

And what's with the personal attacks? Just because my views and opinions aren't the same as yours doesn't mean that everything I think is totally invalid and contemptable, no more than your views are to me. I'm a bright man, educated and successful in business, I think I have as much of a right to express myself as the next person, and would like to be able to do it without being ridiculed.

Jeez, first and foremost this is a motorcycle forum filled with people brought together by our love of the sport. That means we all have some common ground doesn't it? I don't agree with everybody's opinions on here, no more than every single other person on here agrees with mine, but hopefully there's room for everyone to express themselves in an open forum and still be able to keep it civil and above the belt.

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post #30 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, in retrospect this thread was a bad idea, didn't expect so much
Seems that you can't have a grown up conversation between the Clintonites and the Bushies without a bunch of
Anybody want to talk about motorcycles?

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post #31 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 05:23 AM
 
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Oh, I get it. This whole thing was a bait-and-switch thread. Interesting to see you back away from it so fast. C'mon man, stand up for yourself! Don't let someone like me influence you!

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post #32 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for sharing your views Mr. Frazer, good luck in that small world you live in.

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post #33 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
I'm sure this won't cause any controversy...

Given the choice, and ignoring your personal feelings for both individuals, would you rather relive the 8 years that Bill Clinton was President, or the 8 years that George Bush has been President?

I'm strictly talking about how they did their job, their accomplishments while in office if you will. Consider how their policies affected our economy, think about each one's dealings with the rest of the world, think overall big picture.
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Ok, in retrospect this thread was a bad idea, didn't expect so much
Seems that you can't have a grown up conversation between the Clintonites and the Bushies without a bunch of
Anybody want to talk about motorcycles?
Well, you did state that fact in your first post of this thread. Your poll results should be an indicator of how statements regarding liberal policy will be answered.

The personal attacks are uncalled for and we should keep it clean, but I am reminded that you get what you asked for. You opened this thread with an intent to see the results; howevwer they may play out. Now, as Bob stated, don't let him ruffle your feathers and defend your positions.

Bob, keep it respectable and try not to insight emotional responses.

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post #34 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidgeRunner View Post
Well, you did state that fact in your first post of this thread. Your poll results should be an indicator of how statements regarding liberal policy will be answered.

The personal attacks are uncalled for and we should keep it clean, but I am reminded that you get what you asked for. You opened this thread with an intent to see the results; howevwer they may play out. Now, as Bob stated, don't let him ruffle your feathers and defend your positions.

Bob, keep it respectable and try not to insight emotional responses.
Thank you Ridge. I understand totally that this is a very controversial subject. However, there are many members here that can disagree with a stated opinion and intelligently state their position without resorting to personal attacks. I'm more than happy to defend my positions to those members.

What a sad world it would be if everyone thought exactly the same way and had all the same opinions. Like it or not, there's always more than one way of looking at something and and if you keep an open mind on any given subject you might actually learn something along the way.

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post #35 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:29 AM
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Ridge, um I think the word you want is --incite-. ( Just snaggin 5 bucks for a casino I'll never use.)

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post #36 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
Thank you Ridge. I understand totally that this is a very controversial subject. However, there are many members here that can disagree with a stated opinion and intelligently state their position without resorting to personal attacks. I'm more than happy to defend my positions to those members.

What a sad world it would be if everyone thought exactly the same way and had all the same opinions. Like it or not, there's always more than one way of looking at something and and if you keep an open mind on any given subject you might actually learn something along the way.
Amen brother

+1

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post #37 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonhead View Post
Ridge, um I think the word you want is --incite-. ( Just snaggin 5 bucks for a casino I'll never use.)
yeah, you're right. My Engrish has suffered a bit as of late.

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post #38 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by async View Post
Amen brother

+1
I want 5 bucks too!

I said I never had much use for one.
Never said I didn't know how to use it."
Mathew Quigley
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post #39 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 06:59 AM
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Hopefully this doesn't sound like I'm rambling too much and makes a little sense?

Prior to 2000 election I was a supervisor at a meat processing faciltiy with 19 different ethnic races. I had a couple different muslims who worked for me. One of them was a 20 year old Ethiopian young guy. Pretty decent kid, but numerous times he's mention that there was going to be war if president Bush was elected and they'd do anything they could to kill him.

This was coming from a young person in the mid-west that really didn't have any political affiliation with anyone to my knowledge. He wasn't someone who you'd consider was a radical of any kind, but within less than a year the world was changed forever after the 2000 election.

All the sh*t that's happened in the last eight years I often think about what would have been different if someone else would have been elected? Maybe it would have been similar, or maybe not?

I'm a registered Republican, but I can't stand Bush any longer. His office term has done one hell of a job of raising the costs of energy though. What a coincedence that his family money's come from oil..?? Can't think of much else he's accomplished.

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post #40 of 56 Old 01-15-2008, 07:07 AM
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Anyone who has gotten into position to be a candidate for President has lied ,cheated and stolen it's the only way to get there. People are going to vote for the person that tells them what they want to hear which means if you run for office you can't stand for anything because once you do you lose votes from people who disagree with you. I don't know about you but watching a debate when one candidate answers a question I think to my self "what did they just say" what side of the issue are they on. When was the last yes or no answer you've heard from one of them? All you hear is that they are going to but it away in their lockbox.

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