CBR 1000 Triple R? (No not a 3 cylinder) - Wrist Twisters
 
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Old 10-31-2019, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
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CBR 1000 Triple R? (No not a 3 cylinder)

So another page to rumor mill around the 2020 CBR 1000RR.

First was rumors of highest HP production bike.
Then patents filed for retractable aerodynamics (winglets).
Now this:
https://www.rideapart.com/articles/3...r-name-update/

I guess we’ll probably know if it’s for real or a letdown in a couple days.

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Old 10-31-2019, 01:23 PM
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Every R-Type mass production bike Honda has ever made has been a letdown. The last well built bike they created was the RC51 and it was still a turd. Since then Honda's legendary fit, finish and reliability disappeared like a fart in a hurricane

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Old 11-02-2019, 06:41 AM
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I was a big Honda fan for a long time. They used to lead the way. Their stuff was fast, and light, and good looking. It's like they don't care anymore. I'd assume they make a lot more money with cars.

I've gotten disheartened with KTM the last few years, too. They used to be kick ass, take no prisoners, make no compromises. Recently, their suspensions have gotten cheap. They're getting heavier.

Triumph has a couple of interesting bikes....

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Old 11-02-2019, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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Three more days and we probably should know for sure, on both companies.

With the patents and trademark filings from Honda, this would be a huge letdown if the bike came out basically unchanged, maybe even more than normal.

KTM is supposed to be introducing a re-designed 1290 SDR.
Rumors of 200 HP, but if true, probably wasted on a naked anyway with little aerodynamics (for most). People buy that one for the torque. But they have to probably play the numbers games to keep up with the competition.
The big change from the spy shots is the frame. Looks like the RC8 frame, which handling at high speeds was one the biggest knocks on the SD.
Probably the same WP suspension though, maybe they’ll make it electronically adjustable like the SDGT. And what most expensive bikes are going to.

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Old 11-04-2019, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like Honda finally made major updates.

2021 CBR1000RR-R (available June 2020)
215 bhp
83 ft-lb
Frame design changes
Winglets for downforce
200/55 rear tire

For the top end trim (SP I believe)
Akrapovic exhaust
Ohlins electronic suspension
Brembo Stylema brakes

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...r-r-fireblade/

https://youtu.be/oid6JrLpkxg

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Old 11-04-2019, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Every R-Type mass production bike Honda has ever made has been a letdown. The last well built bike they created was the RC51 and it was still a turd. Since then Honda's legendary fit, finish and reliability disappeared like a fart in a hurricane
Curious to know in what aspects you think the RC51 is a turd ?

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Old 11-04-2019, 04:43 PM
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Curious to know in what aspects you think the RC51 is a turd ?

All aspects... Overweight, underpowered, high center of gravity and terrible OEM suspension

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Old 11-04-2019, 07:47 PM
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The RC51 was also uncomfortable, got bad gas mileage, expensive, and ugly. But somehow, they were still cool.

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Old 11-04-2019, 07:59 PM
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The RC51 was also uncomfortable, got bad gas mileage, expensive, and ugly. But somehow, they were still cool.

Yes, Yes, Not Really and whoa whoa whoa... That's not very nice


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Old 11-05-2019, 06:44 PM
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I did like the engine characteristics of the RC51. I came really close to buying a 996 Super Hawk, which should have been pretty much the same experence. But it wasn't.

I think riding that V2, RC51 one fine summer day, many years ago, led to the purchase of a couple of 990 Super Dukes and an 848 Streetfighter. A sporty V2 is still my favorite.

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Old 11-06-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PC1978 View Post
Looks like Honda finally made major updates.

2021 CBR1000RR-R (available June 2020)
215 bhp
83 ft-lb
Frame design changes
Winglets for downforce
200/55 rear tire

For the top end trim (SP I believe)
Akrapovic exhaust
Ohlins electronic suspension
Brembo Stylema brakes

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...r-r-fireblade/

https://youtu.be/oid6JrLpkxg



Wow congrats to Honda they matched the specs on a 2010 BMWS1000RR and it only took them 10 years to do it!!!

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Old 11-07-2019, 04:23 PM
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Very interesting reading re the engine design aspect:

https://www.cycleworld.com/2021-cbr1...m_medium=email

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Old 11-09-2019, 09:21 AM
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:09 AM
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Same ole lip service... They always say something like "aimed at WSBK" then immediately and for the duration fail at even meager expectations for the entire model run which usually spans at least 4 years

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Old 11-09-2019, 12:53 PM
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I just finished reading it, thanks for posting the link as I had missed it.

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Old 11-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Same ole lip service... They always say something like "aimed at WSBK" then immediately and for the duration fail at even meager expectations for the entire model run which usually spans at least 4 years
But tapping Kevin Cameron's erudite writings is never a bad thing.

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Old 11-09-2019, 03:20 PM
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Meh... I'm jaded, have my own experience and I'm way too much of a realist to accept much of anything they say regardless of credentials. Having worked in the journalistic arena of the powersports industry I can say fewer things in life have been as much a disappointment as meeting many of my once revered writers in the moto-rags.



Remember those moto-journalists only exist to give an opinion to an interested party that lacks the experience to form one on their own... Depending on who's paying them to give that opinion it may not even be an honest one.

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Old 11-10-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Meh... I'm jaded, have my own experience and I'm way too much of a realist to accept much of anything they say regardless of credentials. Having worked in the journalistic arena of the powersports industry I can say fewer things in life have been as much a disappointment as meeting many of my once revered writers in the moto-rags.



Remember those moto-journalists only exist to give an opinion to an interested party that lacks the experience to form one on their own... Depending on who's paying them to give that opinion it may not even be an honest one.
Guys like you have experiences and portals that 99.99 % of us don't have a realistic expectation or hope of ever having.
So you should have a different tint to the eye wear than the rest of us.
For those of us that are fascinated by the engineering and science, we have to keep an eye out for what sources we can tap, be it for info, advice, whatever.
Someone like Kevin Cameron offers well written material that is approachable and informative, while also including some well based conjecture.
Where else are we going to find that?
(If you have suggestions, I'd love to hear them.)

As for your comment about being disappointed after meeting a revered writer, I can relate too well but in a slightly different way.
I used to think, because I assumed, that high level executives in companies had to be incredibly smart and astute people.
Not any more, having far too many times seen proof of the opposite.

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Old 11-12-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Meh... I'm jaded, have my own experience and I'm way too much of a realist to accept much of anything they say regardless of credentials. Having worked in the journalistic arena of the powersports industry I can say fewer things in life have been as much a disappointment as meeting many of my once revered writers in the moto-rags.

Remember those moto-journalists only exist to give an opinion to an interested party that lacks the experience to form one on their own... Depending on who's paying them to give that opinion it may not even be an honest one.
In my decades of experience reading motorcycle magazines there are a considerable number of motojournalists who seem to base their income, at least in some large percentage, to the advertising budgets of the various manufacturers. It gets tiresome to read articles where they gloss over glaring deficiencies in design and manufacturing while raving about great paint jobs. In that regard Kevin Cameron is definitely not anywhere near that group. He does not suffer from the need to pander to anyone with large advertising budgets, and I have found if he panned a particular motorcycle or parts manufacturer in any way reality bears him out regardless of the writings of others. In short, I have come to trust what he says, especially when he clearly admits that there is an aspect where he has insufficient information or experience to present a cogent opinion.

To lump him in with rank and file journalists is doing a great disservice to the man and his considerable body of work. I have learned volumes from his writing, and continue to defer to his opinion if mine is not as informed as his.

As to the latest and greatest CBR 1000 alphabet soup ... time will tell. From Cameron's article on the engine it would seem to be the case, especially in the area of bore and stroke: a change from 55mm to 48.5mm, significantly raising the redline to more modern levels (theoretical redline at 4,500 MPS is 14,500 RPM as opposed to a paltry 12,500 RPM previously). Hopefully Honda will break out of their torpor and produce a machine that is competitive on the track with the necessary fettling. However, history indicates that they will probably take the edge off sufficiently to try to get the squids past their first payment before wadding it into a ball of high tech tinfoil. Such is life in the U.S. motorcycling world.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
In my decades of experience reading motorcycle magazines there are a considerable number of motojournalists who seem to base their income, at least in some large percentage, to the advertising budgets of the various manufacturers. It gets tiresome to read articles where they gloss over glaring deficiencies in design and manufacturing while raving about great paint jobs. In that regard Kevin Cameron is definitely not anywhere near that group. He does not suffer from the need to pander to anyone with large advertising budgets, and I have found if he panned a particular motorcycle or parts manufacturer in any way reality bears him out regardless of the writings of others. In short, I have come to trust what he says, especially when he clearly admits that there is an aspect where he has insufficient information or experience to present a cogent opinion.

To lump him in with rank and file journalists is doing a great disservice to the man and his considerable body of work. I have learned volumes from his writing, and continue to defer to his opinion if mine is not as informed as his.

As to the latest and greatest CBR 1000 alphabet soup ... time will tell. From Cameron's article on the engine it would seem to be the case, especially in the area of bore and stroke: a change from 55mm to 48.5mm, significantly raising the redline to more modern levels (theoretical redline at 4,500 MPS is 14,500 RPM as opposed to a paltry 12,500 RPM previously). Hopefully Honda will break out of their torpor and produce a machine that is competitive on the track with the necessary fettling. However, history indicates that they will probably take the edge off sufficiently to try to get the squids past their first payment before wadding it into a ball of high tech tinfoil. Such is life in the U.S. motorcycling world.

Rob

I cannot argue any part of that. In fact that is a great post, but at the same I won't split hairs either when I can paint the entire field with such a broad brush and everyone can still see the picture. Not singling out any moto-journalist - just basically stopped reading those crap magazines about 10-12 years ago when I got an intimate taste of how they are made. The nature of my professional service work carries a huge liability and opinions, omissions or even just a lack of candor can have serious repercussions. When I make a decision on how to valve a custom shock or fork cartridge or set-up a motorcycle I need honest feedback and the real scoop. For that I have better contacts within the industry and situated near the top that are 100% credible and accurate without fail.


Anecdotally, when a customer calls me up complaining about the handling of his 10 year old dreambike Ducati S Model 1098 that he has finally been able to save up enough money & buy and then finds out the geometry is flawed and the factory Ohlins suspension is completely inferior to the aftermarket Ohlins he is generally surprised to find out that not one single moto-journalist, in 10 years, even uttered one iota of this phenomena to the minions that read their articles specifically about this bike.

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