At what point is the price of a particular motorcycle bottomed out - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-05-2017, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
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At what point is the price of a particular motorcycle bottomed out

Buying motorcycles has definately NOT been a money making endeavor, for me. It's been a lot of fun. And it pays to play.

But l often wonder, At what point does the price of a really nice, old motorcycle, start to go back up?

919s are very popular here. What is the lowest you'll ever see a really nice 919 sell for? In 10 years, What will a minty '06 with 5500 miles on it be worth?

How about that old Interceptor? Blackbird? '98 900RR? Have you seen a really nice unmolested 900RR lately? Neither have l!

Is my beloved Super Duke going to be s classic one day? I think so. But l am emotionally invested in that thing.

Who saw CBX prices coming?

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post #2 of 20 Old 06-06-2017, 01:43 AM
(Quintus) Pilus Prior
 
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I was into the CB700S before the 919 and I found that they bottomed out about 1500 for a nice one. Nice meaning it's mostly all there and it runs well. The 919 I would guess a bit more because it's a lot more of a bike (liquid cooled, EFI), maybe 2500.

IMO it's how complete the bike is and how good the design is and the parts. Example, the 700S uses 16" tires, dual shocks, carbs, drum rear, air/oil cooled and hard to find parts. The 919 is over it in all those areas.

You'll find lower priced ones, but there's always someone wanting to just dump a bike and so you really can't go by what you read about the prices. It's really about how usable the bike is.

This excludes some of the special bikes.

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post #3 of 20 Old 06-06-2017, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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Well, l found a really nice '08 990 Super Duke R for sale. It has only 8000 miles on it.

I do not need another motorcycle. But it's a Super Duke R. If in good condition, l don't see a bike like that ever selling for less than $6000.

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post #4 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Well, l found a really nice '08 990 Super Duke R for sale. It has only 8000 miles on it.

I do not need another motorcycle. But it's a Super Duke R. If in good condition, l don't see a bike like that ever selling for less than $6000.
I think you NEED to buy that Super Duke. If it is in good condition with only 8k miles, $6k is a pretty good deal. I have a 08 Super Duke (not an R) that has been one of the most fun bikes I have ever owned.

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post #5 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 10:33 AM
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Not to hijack your thread, but I saw a 2009 Buell 1125CR, black, unmodified, with 2100 miles on it, asking price $4900. I'm really thinking about offering $4250 and seeing what he says. When I was looking at the 919, I always loved the Buells and have never been able to get them out of my head. I always said that if I got another bike, I wanted it to offer a different experience than the 919, ie an F6B, but this seems too good to pass up...
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 02:35 PM
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I believe in general, that motorcycle prices vary depending on the following:
1. how original they have been kept.
2. how "nice" those original parts have been kept.
3. paint schemes, original.
4. very little to NO mods done.
5. driven somewhat but not too much (what is that number, I have not a clue).
6. rubbers, fluids, lines, chain, electrical system...etc.. in good shape, not faded nor tatty nor ratty.

I'm sure there are a lot of other factors I'm missing but....for the most part, these rare gems (919s) hold their values pretty well.

I think motorcycles are "NEVER" a money making experience unless you plan on doing ALL the resto or mechanical work yourself.

therefore: conclusion - buy the bike you like, the ones you've always wanted, in decent shape. Learn about them. Fix them, or not, if you chose to...especially "ride" them a lot and then move on but don't expect to get your money back too often. Sometimes you make out like a bandit, but most of the times, you don't.

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post #7 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 02:37 PM
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when does anyone ever "NEED" another motorcycle. Hell I don't NEED any motorcycles in my life but I WANT to have 365 motorcycles, one for each day of the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
Well, l found a really nice '08 990 Super Duke R for sale. It has only 8000 miles on it.

I do not need another motorcycle. But it's a Super Duke R. If in good condition, l don't see a bike like that ever selling for less than $6000.

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #8 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 04:54 PM
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It's kinda like cars, the 1972 pinto isn't going to fetch the money a 1957 TBird is going to fetch. The bottom is going to be pretty low for most any car that's not a collector car in part because most cars aren't worth restoring.

My CB700S has been sitting for a good while, parts are hard to find and I don't have to fix it because I have another bike. If it were the Buell 1125 or a Duke, it would be different, but It's not.

The 72 pinto is never going to be a 57 TBird.

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post #9 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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You stated a good point..........."parts".
Seems that theres a strange realm where if parts "are" indeed available, then the bike becomes more desirable....yet take the Honda CBR400RR.....hell near impossible to find any parts for that damn thing. But it's worth pesos.....so, I have no idea what I'm talkin' bout.

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #10 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think you would ever lose money on that Buell.

If Honda would have let, who ever it was that designed the look of the Buell, design the 919, Honda would have sold twice as many.

Coincidentally, l saw a guy on an old Buell today. Just think what those bikes would have been if Buell would have put an RC51 engine in that frame.

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post #11 of 20 Old 06-07-2017, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper-x View Post
I don't think you would ever lose money on that Buell.

If Honda would have let, who ever it was that designed the look of the Buell, design the 919, Honda would have sold twice as many.

Coincidentally, l saw a guy on an old Buell today. Just think what those bikes would have been if Buell would have put an RC51 engine in that frame.
I wonder what ever happened to that deal where someone was buying Buell. Their site says they're gone as of 09 but there was a writeup about someone buying them for their assets and going to maybe bring it back to life.

I really think they could have been brought back to life. I think he was a great designer, but a poor business man. Just goes to prove that any idea can be ruined.

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post #12 of 20 Old 06-08-2017, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
I wonder what ever happened to that deal where someone was buying Buell. Their site says they're gone as of 09 but there was a writeup about someone buying them for their assets and going to maybe bring it back to life.

I really think they could have been brought back to life. I think he was a great designer, but a poor business man. Just goes to prove that any idea can be ruined.
They got brought back to life for around 3 years, got screwed by Hero, closed, opened back up again for a year or 2, and then closed again last year. The (second) EBR factory liquidation actually started today.

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
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-1995 Nighthawk 750 (Tboned)
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-15-2017, 10:00 AM
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I have a fondness for Buells but like most glass cannons, the availability of replacement parts seems like it would make owning or buying one a risky endeavor at this point, especially since it seems the realy are DOA now.

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post #14 of 20 Old 06-15-2017, 10:48 AM
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I sold my really well built carbon fiber clad RC51 laden with one-off parts for $4500 in 2004





Nowadays, RC51's with 20,000+ miles, rashed to shit, abused, rode hard and put up wet with dented everything and smoking engines are getting more than that!

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post #15 of 20 Old 06-15-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I sold my really well built carbon fiber clad RC51 laden with one-off parts for $4500 in 2004





Nowadays, RC51's with 20,000+ miles, rashed to shit, abused, rode hard and put up wet with dented everything and smoking engines are getting more than that!
Sad but true, and so fundamentally wrong on so many levels.

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post #16 of 20 Old 06-15-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
They got brought back to life for around 3 years, got screwed by Hero, closed, opened back up again for a year or 2, and then closed again last year. The (second) EBR factory liquidation actually started today.
From a business stand point, the "factory" really doesn't matter much. The thing about the bike is the knowledge/tech that went into it. He failed as a business person, but did well with the tech. Now that there's no machinery or factory, the knowledge can be picked up cheap and be used to start again.

In a free market system, he's reached the bottom and that makes it a bargain. Just like Apple was "30 days from dead" and came back, someone with the vision could have bought it for cheap. Now, someone with a vision can do that with Buell for much less money that they could have while it was a functional business.

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post #17 of 20 Old 06-16-2017, 11:27 AM
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From a business stand point, the "factory" really doesn't matter much. The thing about the bike is the knowledge/tech that went into it. He failed as a business person, but did well with the tech.
No he didn't... He failed because he used engineering gimmicks instead of tried and proven methods that are competitive in a modern market. Just because a method is different than the norm it does not automatically make it better or smarter. I've said before it's the same old crap Eric was doing 2 decades ago and still trying to make it work now. Remember to be successful in the sportbike business you need performance, reliability and build quality. The EBR models just as the Buell's before them were lacking in all areas when compared to mainstream manufacturers. If that appeals to you then great, but niche markets are NOT good business models period.

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post #18 of 20 Old 06-19-2017, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
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No he didn't... He failed because he used engineering gimmicks instead of tried and proven methods that are competitive in a modern market. Just because a method is different than the norm it does not automatically make it better or smarter. I've said before it's the same old crap Eric was doing 2 decades ago and still trying to make it work now. Remember to be successful in the sportbike business you need performance, reliability and build quality. The EBR models just as the Buell's before them were lacking in all areas when compared to mainstream manufacturers. If that appeals to you then great, but niche markets are NOT good business models period.
Agreed. While the technology is cool, and some of his designs had promise, he either needed to be much better than the mainstream bikes, or much more affordable. But he was at best as good as mainstream designs in some aspects, and not as good in others. At the same time, he was more expensive than anything but the top tier bikes. That's not a plan for success no matter the product.

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
-2009 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Race Bike
-2007 Honda 919
-1995 Nighthawk 750 (Tboned)
-1983 KZ 440 (Sold)
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-19-2017, 12:05 PM
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it's the scene from "Tucker" all over again. Interesting tech, ahead of it's time. It happened to DaVinci, it happened to Eric, it happened to "Cyzske" (the fellow who was an architect who went into the moto biz to design and build a better bike) and passed away a few years back from cancer.

it happens. folks who so called "make it" have a few factors in their favor.
1) timing
2) talent
3) creativity
4) who you know and who you're willing to blow
5) funds/angel money available
6) good product
7) good business plan
8) great final goal in mind.

if you are missing any one of these components...sure you "MAY" succeed by sheer luck but it's not a guarantee.

VintageHunter
Location: Shambhala
"always looking for that next find".
1984 Yamaha Seca 400
1984 Honda CB125
1987 Yamaha RZ350
Various Yamaha YSR50, YSR200, YSR80
1986 Honda 500 Interceptor
1998 Yamaha R1 (first original R1)
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1997 Kawasaki ZX7
1989 Honda GT650 Hawk
1989 Honda CB-1
2007 Honda 919
2001 Honda CBR F4i

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post #20 of 20 Old 06-19-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
No he didn't... He failed because he used engineering gimmicks instead of tried and proven methods that are competitive in a modern market. Just because a method is different than the norm it does not automatically make it better or smarter. I've said before it's the same old crap Eric was doing 2 decades ago and still trying to make it work now. Remember to be successful in the sportbike business you need performance, reliability and build quality. The EBR models just as the Buell's before them were lacking in all areas when compared to mainstream manufacturers. If that appeals to you then great, but niche markets are NOT good business models period.
I wasn't sure about the performance of his bikes, I've heard good things about them, but never knew they had problems. But, yes we agree on the business part. I'd like to see someone jump in and make a Buell that could sell like the Duc Monster.

I don't know if he has the quality, but I think there's a market there, he just couldn't make it work.

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