Smaller Cages==Safer roads! - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Smaller Cages==Safer roads!

My first cage was a 30MPG FIAT128 wagon, so it is ironic they are returning to the US. Cage designs will transition to smaller footprints. For Motorcyclists this is very positive!

Smaller, lighter cars have lower potential energy, that lowers risk to others!

Smaller car drivers share our concern about road safety and will improve conditions!

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post #2 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:12 AM
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I agree. Make fun of Smart cars all you want, I would much rather share the road with a tiny commuter vehicle than another Excursion or Hummer. When I see people commuting to work in an H2 or a 1-ton pickup (with a leather interior!) it makes me think that they have no idea how to choose the correct tool for the job. Why do they need 5000 lbs of metal and plastic to move 180 lbs of human around the city? We all pay for oversize commuter vehicles through road wear, larger parking areas, city infrastructure, air quality, increased risk to other road users, etc. A 1-ton truck is an excellent tool for the worksite or the oilfields; it is the wrong tool to move 1 person to work every day.

This thread makes me want to visit Ride To Work | Ride To Work:: Motorcycles aren't toys, they are part of the solution to urban sprawl and air pollution.

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post #3 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:26 AM
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I wish it would happen here. I loved watching all the small cars and scooters in Europe. Unfortunately, here everyone seems to relate car size to their stature or presumed "worth" in life. When I make a vocal comment at the gas station to someone driving one of those monstrosities, I usually get the "I can afford to drive this" speech.

*sigh*

After many years and many dreams I have realized my goal of riding in all 50 states!

Now the rest of the world!

Every now and then go away and have a little relaxation. To remain constantly at work will diminish your judgment. --Leonardo Da Vinci
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post #4 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:28 AM
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I'm sure this will stimulate much conversation from all sides. Many believe it is our God given right as Americans to drive as big of a vehicle and use as much fossil fuel as we want. I'm with you Dream, have always been a smaller vehicle kind of guy, and while I love my Tacoma I feel guilty that it doesn't get better gas mileage. I figure I make up for it with our extremely efficient VW TDI's and motorcycles, but I still wish it got better mileage.

I'd also be happier as a motorcyclist if I didn't have to share the road with Escalades, Excursions, Surbubans and Hummers. This is America though, big cars are part of our historical fabric, they won't just disappear. I think it is a good sign that Americans are finally starting to think smaller, I'd rather not have it government mandated but it seems that we don't want to make the transition on our own. Witness the fact that every time gas prices spike SUV sales plummet, but as soon as it's back down under $2/gal people are right back buying the big ol gas hogs again.

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post #5 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:32 AM
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just remember the same folks who want to legislate SUV's out of existence may also think 1 liter 100 plus HP bikes are excessive.

Rich

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post #6 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Jura View Post
just remember the same folks who want to legislate SUV's out of existence may also think 1 liter 100 plus HP bikes are excessive.

Rich
That's a good point Rich, it's always best for the people to make the right decision about what to buy and not have the government do it for them.

I'll catch grief for this, but $4 gas was the best thing to bring about a change in attitudes. Why do we have some inherent right to cheap gas? We produce very little in the big picture and use a disproportionate amount of the world's resources. Most of the rest of the world has been dealing with high gas prices for years, and their automotive companies have responded with fuel efficient vehicles for their markets. Perhaps if we wouldn't have become so spoiled by cheap gas the domestic manufacturers might have actually done some R&D of their own and not found themselves in such a mess today.

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post #7 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Jura View Post
just remember the same folks who want to legislate SUV's out of existence may also think 1 liter 100 plus HP bikes are excessive.

Rich
ding ding ding, thank you.

people never seem to understand, until its put into context on how it may affect there own little world. Theres enough people around here quoting MPG figures that their bike gets comparable to a 3000+lb 4 door. In the grand scheme of things theres nothing practical about that.

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post #8 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 03:42 PM
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My 1985 Chevy Sprint gets 44MPG on the highway and 35 in town. It's 23 years old and has a little tiny carb. How come The fancy hybrids only get about 10 more MPG's 25 years later? It's not just domestic makers who haven't improved much. Oh, the Sprint has a 998CC inline 3. Four seats, little trunk AND an A/C. This is what the government wants you to drive, only they want you to lose the A/C and 250cc's.

In contrast my 919 get's about 45-50MPG no matter where (or how )I'm riding. Compared to the the Sprint it's not very practical at all. With four people in it, the sprint is getting 176 people miles per gallon, the 919 only get's 90... If I had a Tahoe hybrid OTH, I could be getting, let's see, 25 miles per gallon x 7 seats = 175 people miles per gallon. Sounds pretty good especially when you consider the "back seat" of the sprint... the Toyota hybrid gets 200 people miles per gallon, although (again) I wouldn't want to be one of the two people in the back. A 15 passenger van get's good people miles too, but really not that good. 12 MPG x 15 people, well you get the idea...

I guess using my logic everyone should be driving bigger 44 passenger busses instead... Sounds like the best solution. 6MPG x 44 passengers... I guess public transportation is the answer. No-one can drive with less than 43 passengers from now on. New rule.

All in good fun. I don't think the government has any business telling me what or where I should be driving. Or shooting. Or working. Or getting stitches. Less government = better government. Just my two zinc filled copper coated pennies.

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post #9 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Jura View Post
just remember the same folks who want to legislate SUV's out of existence may also think 1 liter 100 plus HP bikes are excessive.

Rich
I agree with you Rich. There are countries that regulate the engine size and or horsepower rating of motorcycles. There may be a guy on a Ninja 250 board that feels that 900 + CC motorcycles are a waste since his lil Ninja does such a good job of moving him from point A to point B. Just a thought since I started out on a Ninja 250 and moved up to a bigger bike for no other reason than I wanted more power and could afford to buy it.

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post #10 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 04:24 PM
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This is (was) America. Ill drive my F350 if I want. Get Over it.

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post #11 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjayp View Post
My 1985 Chevy Sprint gets 44MPG on the highway and 35 in town. It's 23 years old and has a little tiny carb. How come The fancy hybrids only get about 10 more MPG's 25 years later? It's not just domestic makers who haven't improved much. Oh, the Sprint has a 998CC inline 3. Four seats, little trunk AND an A/C. This is what the government wants you to drive, only they want you to lose the A/C and 250cc's.

In contrast my 919 get's about 45-50MPG no matter where (or how )I'm riding. Compared to the the Sprint it's not very practical at all. With four people in it, the sprint is getting 176 people miles per gallon, the 919 only get's 90... If I had a Tahoe hybrid OTH, I could be getting, let's see, 25 miles per gallon x 7 seats = 175 people miles per gallon. Sounds pretty good especially when you consider the "back seat" of the sprint... the Toyota hybrid gets 200 people miles per gallon, although (again) I wouldn't want to be one of the two people in the back. A 15 passenger van get's good people miles too, but really not that good. 12 MPG x 15 people, well you get the idea...

I guess using my logic everyone should be driving bigger 44 passenger busses instead... Sounds like the best solution. 6MPG x 44 passengers... I guess public transportation is the answer. No-one can drive with less than 43 passengers from now on. New rule.

All in good fun. I don't think the government has any business telling me what or where I should be driving. Or shooting. Or working. Or getting stitches. Less government = better government. Just my two zinc filled copper coated pennies.

i agree with the people miles per gallon, but that said tahoo normally has 1 soccer mom/dad going to work, getting crappy mileage. that being said most familys cant afford to have a dedicated family mover. and 1 for just work.

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post #12 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
This is (was) America. Ill drive my F350 if I want. Get Over it.
I'm driving a F350 Super Duty V10 to Iowa tomorrow and towing home an Airstream trailer. That's what those trucks are meant to do and thank God we still have the option of buying such vehicles. It's when they're used for everyday transportation with only one person in it that I see a problem, it's just wasteful over consumption IMHO. Same thing with Suburbans and the like, when you need to haul 6 or 7 people and a bunch of gear you can't beat them, and in the big picture you're being more efficient than using several smaller vehicles, unfortunately you usually see just one person driving them as a daily commuter.

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post #13 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
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it's just wasteful over consumption IMHO
& one man's wasteful over consumption is not another man's. I could (& will in a bit) give you all the reasons against this theory but the underlying fact is people need to mind their own business. Period. If some want to live where everybody drives a coffin on wheels go do it, but that is not how it is in the land of the free.

So you want to tisk tisk someone over the size of their car. Fine. Lets move on to houses. How much square foot per human should we dole out? How about those rich fat cats with vacation homes who heat & cool them with no one there? How about the fat guy who consumes twice the amount of food as me?

If SUVS pose a threat to bikes & getting rid of them helps a little, then lets get rid of bikes cause cars are safer than bikes, & remember it does not matter what you are in when that 18 wheeler rolls over you.

You see Scott, I read your posts & believe at least on this issue, you are pretty much on my side & simply trying to "see the other side" but I am not. I can see it from here & it ain't pretty. Please don't take this personal, but I'll use you as an example. You currently have more motorcycles in your garage than you have fingers & toes correct? + cars, trucks, etc. to boot. Is that not a "wasteful over consumption"? IMHO--no. I defend you to have that provided you didn't steal it. Its none of my business what you have. But is it reasonably prudent that a man & his wife don't need such a lot of vehicles? Why do you need a 919 when a 599 will do? Why a 599 when a Vulcan 500 will do? Cause this is America & people don't tell you that's why.

How much garbage do you & your wife have each week? Is it more than your neighbors with the Prius? What if you have one bag of garbage a week but your neighbor with the Prius has 3? Is he not consuming more than you? Do you look down at him in the same way he looks at people in those wretched gas guzzling Hummers? How much garbage should we allow per person?

I live by myself. I waste little IMHO. I have a small kitchen bag of garbage or less every week. I keep my thermostat no warmer than 62 in the winter & no cooler than 80 in the summer--& I am in IA where you need BOTH---ALOT. But, I like you, have a garage full of bikes & vehicles. So why should I be singled out for driving a truck or suburban (really a Chevy 1500 not F350), & yes by myself, by Johhny Prius with that smug look of elietism on his face when he has 3 cans of garbage every week & keeps his twice as big house 5 degrees more comfortable than mine year round? I dont have kids. People with kids consume more--alot more. Should I get a credit or those with kids a tax for consuming more? You know what though--I dont care--its not my business---so they should stay out of mine.

& finally the logistics. My uncle has 5 kids within 18 years of each other. He had a suburban & crew cab truck. To go anywhere together they need a Suburban, yet my aunt drove it to work everyday by herself cause that was their vehicle. I use my truck as a truck somedays, but not everyday, do I need a Fiat too for days when I don't use it as a truck? What if I tow a boat or camper on the weekends but not my way to work? I know Obama's plan--nix the boats & campers. Whola--problem solved.

But none of this mattered because we used to be free & back then you were in a land of individuals. But now, everbody needs to worry about everybody else instead of minding their own damn business & worring about themselves. Too bad so many hoped for change

Just because I choose to keep my heating & coolling usage down as how I want to live does not mean I have to force it on anyone else--I why should I get to? Same with cars. BTW--Obama wants a smart grid where he can turn off your lights & control your HVAC system. Says Pandora: "How do I close this damn box?"

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post #14 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:31 PM
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Forgot this

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Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
We produce very little in the big picture and use a disproportionate amount of the world's resources.
We can't produce because the GOV won't let us. & we all have seen what happens when the evil Americans quit using so many resources---its called the current GLOBAL recesion. Turns out those countries that love to hate us deeply rely on us to consume for their own survival. China is is a tissy because we aren't buying there cheap crap as much.

Again, just happened to be your quote, I really am responding to the sentiment expressed by others in the thread but you always come up with the phrases that stick in my head.

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post #15 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:34 PM
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Bryce that was very well written and thought out. You've clearly illustrated just how complex of a matter this is. We've laughed ourselves at the number of vehicles we have as only two people, but it's also true that we're only driving one or two at a time and other than my truck, they're all very efficient.

It's hard to be a car and bike lover, as I have been my whole life, and still try to be a responsible steward of our environment. Hard, but not impossible. It's just that unfortunately many of those trying to legislate this issue are not car and bike lovers so they don't look at it as you and I do. I have always thought enthusiasts should be more involved, there is definitely a middle ground to be found between mass over consumption and federally legislated vehicle choices.

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post #16 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
Again, just happened to be your quote, I really am responding to the sentiment expressed by others in the thread but you always come up with the phrases that stick in my head.
No offense, enjoy the give and take. Must just be that my quotes are so damned eloquent huh?

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post #17 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:59 PM
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it would be nice to not have to be on the road with a soccer mom driving an oversized SUV texting on her blackberry pearl...

so far in my area i've only seen a handful of smartcars... hopefully the trend of smaller and more efficient catches on. unfortunately, with automakers starting the Hybrid SUV lines... i don't see smaller cars making a comeback

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post #18 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
No offense, enjoy the give and take. Must just be that my quotes are so damned eloquent huh?
yeah you are eloquent... well spoken (or at least well typed)... and well thought out...

i agree bryce smacked a home run with that post... well thought out.. well written...

all the things people are trying to "mandate" scares the hell out of me...

i really don't like that word... and every year i hear it tossed around more and more on the news (or what serves as the news)...

i will share something that happened today at work.. cause i think it serves to make a point as to where this country is heading...

i am at work today and was repairing a piece of conveyor that was fubar... i had 2 co-workers with me (both spanish guys and a1 mechanics as well as good guys) and we finally got hungry enough to stop and eat... so we walk back to "the rat hole" which is what our "break room/staging area" is called and some of the guys in there were watching "jerry springer" and i know some of ya'll know i don't watch t.v. but i am trying to eat my lunch with the dregs of society screaming and bleeping and punching and shiiit on t.v....

i tolerated about 10 minutes of it... and then i asked "why are we watching this shiiit"... the reply "well some of us think this is entertaining"....

to which i reply "how shallow and f'd up is your life if you find this entertaining... these arent people... these are animals with the power of speech"...

they put the history channel on....


we as a people still have the ability to improve our country..

it is not lost..

it is not too far gone...

but we have to do the right thing...

turn off that idiot box... stop watching "survivor" and "the apprentice"... either watch something intelligent or read a book...

stop giving these people the attention they crave... the 24hour news wants you to think if you don't watch them your kids will be killed in their sleep... and if you correct them you are a bad person... because you don't let little jr run buck wild and express his creativity...

shut them down... don't buy from their sponsors... turn your back on them



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post #19 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
Bryce that was very well written and thought out. You've clearly illustrated just how complex of a matter this is. We've laughed ourselves at the number of vehicles we have as only two people, but it's also true that we're only driving one or two at a time and other than my truck, they're all very efficient.

Agreed, & I'll add this since I already have it all thought out expecting the reply:

Yes you can only drive one at a time, but that motorcycle did not just come into existance. It probably started with a diesel mining vehicle & lots of explosives & land devestation to mine the ore in rural Pennsylvania. From there it was diesel rail roaded to the foundary in Pittsburg where hot coal fires melted the iron from the ore. This raw iron was then dieseld across the Pacific & Atlantic to Japan where it was formed into steel at a mill. The steel was railed to where the various parts are made. Pieces flame cut, burned, welded, cast, painted, etc. These parts were then diesel trucked to the main assembly site where they were wrapped in all sorts of protective strafoams, plastics, & cardboard products. The crated bike floated on diesel power back over to the USA, then trucked to your dealer. All goods have incalcuable associated costs (Priuses are moade by this same means).

But not all of us can have government work. Someone needs to mine the ore, build & drive the ships, form the steel, work at the dealer, work at the restaurant where the dealer eats, push the coorporate paper, & ULTIMATLEY BUY THE BIKES! Without goods we have no jobs--worldwide.

Now let me tell you about your leather coat....

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post #20 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 06:12 PM
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I drive with blow up dolls as to avoid any such negative attention.

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post #21 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Smaller, lighter cars have lower potential energy, that lowers risk to others!
I still don't want to be hit by a prius


I'm 6'4'' and don't fit in the little cars without my knees touching my elbows!! Give me and my family of 5 a F250 anyday!!!

Daily drive "06 Triumph Tiger" Cage Honda Pilot that get a whopping 18 mpg and before someone tells me that you can get a smaller car to hold 5 people i will also add not with the dang child safety seats the figgin gov. makes you use takes the entire back seat of the Pilot and it's sad going car shopping based on that


May i also add that most of the Prius drivers around here are generally more dangerous to be around as they are most of time slowing up traffic(no idea why the figgin car moves pretty well when drove by the right person) causing people to get irritable and do stupid stuff and around me I see that as bad, now that is really only with Prius' I swear I don't understand it!!


/derail

has anyone seen the new Lexus ISC in person??

that's a small car i want!!!!!


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I drive with blow up dolls as to avoid any such negative attention.

That's funny right there!!

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post #22 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 07:27 PM
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I got rid of all my trucks and big cars several years ago. Not because I want to save the planet(kind of hard to do that when China and India don't try), but because I knew cheap gas was a thing of the past. And I like to drive, and ride a lot. For no reason other than it pleases me. I reject the notion of global warming. It's been cold as hell in my area for years. I don't want anyone telling me what to drive, but I refuse to pay more to drive less. So I bought a Mazda 3 wagon. And a 919.

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post #23 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
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I drive with blow up dolls as to avoid any such negative attention.
Seen it, have the pics somewhere :P

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post #24 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 07:39 PM
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The winters are tough here...lots of snow. That's why I have a 4WD truck. Summers are awesome here, usually (this one has been cold so far). I live near the most beautiful fresh water lakes in the world, Lake Michigan, Torch Lake etc. I have a 19 ft. boat to enjoy these lakes. You can't tow a boat witha Fiat or Smart Car.

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post #25 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
we as a people still have the ability to improve our country..

it is not lost..

it is not too far gone...

but we have to do the right thing...
And if more people thought for themselves maybe we wouldn't have a government feeling the need to mandate it for us. I don't mean that as a political statement about one party or another, it doesn't matter who is in charge. The same crap would still be going on regardless because too large of a percentage of the American people are totally clueless about anything beyond who won American Idol and whoever is in power will take advantage of that fact to push their own agendas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
(Priuses are made by this same means).
Actually Priuses are even more energy intensive to manufacture, check out the environmental nightmare that is a Prius battery.

Once again, you make many good points. Just because everything has an associated environmental manufacturing cost though doesn't mean that we still can't choose the best option for our personal needs.

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Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
Not because I want to save the planet(kind of hard to do that when China and India don't try), but because I knew cheap gas was a thing of the past.
The explosion of China and India and the associated environmental impact is an extremely valid point, still doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do our part and lead the way for them though.

One of my biggest beefs with giant land yachts is the actual space they take up. Parking space, road space, encroaching on my damn lane space. Just in honor of this thread I drove the F350 to dinner tonight since I have it here ready for my trip tomorrow. Felt like I was steering a ship down the streets of Broadripple, had to park in a parking lot because a parallel space was out of the question.

I agree that people should have the choice to drive what they want and the manufacturers should make each vehicle as efficient as possible, but the more people that choose to drive smaller vehicles as personal transportation the better in my eyes. At least in the city anyway, obviously there's a difference between urban roadways such as where I live now and rural settings such as where I grew up. The big truck makes a lot more sense out in Iowa than it does in Indianapolis. If I owned a construction business it would be one thing, but to choose to drive a giant truck for my daily transportion in a cramped city environment just because I like giant trucks, well I think smarter choices could be made.

Since I'm on a roll here, might as well point out that I'm in an industry that consumes major fossil fuels. We've done our best however to upgrade our fleet to the most efficient vehicles that are economically feasible, as well as keep everything maintained in top condition. We provide a necessary service that large cities cannot live without, better that we're doing it with smaller more efficient late model vehicles than the 15 year old Crown Vics and Caprice Classics that I see in some other places. That's what I'm talking about, not completely eliminating big cars and trucks, just making the most logical choice for the task at hand.

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post #26 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post

Since I'm on a roll here, might as well point out that I'm in an industry that consumes major fossil fuels. We've done our best however to upgrade our fleet to the most efficient vehicles that are economically feasible, as well as keep everything maintained in top condition. We provide a necessary service that large cities cannot live without, better that we're doing it with smaller more efficient late model vehicles than the 15 year old Crown Vics and Caprice Classics that I see in some other places. That's what I'm talking about, not completely eliminating big cars and trucks, just making the most logical choice for the task at hand.
you could get a fleet of smart cars.... and some of those little rikshaw things to drag behind them...



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post #27 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
you could get a fleet of smart cars.... and some of those little rikshaw things to drag behind them...
Yeah...we could.

Can't go much smaller than Tauruses, although we did try a couple of Focus wagons in Pensacola, didn't hold up to the rigors of taxi duty however.

Ford is introducing their little Euro van, the Transit Connect. I have high hopes for it as a fuel and space efficient cab, working on a deal to get one for a dealer taxi demo for the Great Lakes region.

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post #28 of 36 Old 06-10-2009, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
Yeah...we could.

Can't go much smaller than Tauruses, although we did try a couple of Focus wagons in Pensacola, didn't hold up to the rigors of taxi duty however.

Ford is introducing their little Euro van, the Transit Connect. I have high hopes for it as a fuel and space efficient cab, working on a deal to get one for a dealer taxi demo for the Great Lakes region.
dude... when i was in new orleans they had a couple of "pool cars" for us to use when our cruisers were in the shop... omg... they were ford taurus wagons.... talk about a dork mobile... i would hide for the day when i had to drive one of those turds... horrible cars... something always breaking...and you really looked like a geek in uniform driving one... ugh..



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post #29 of 36 Old 06-11-2009, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciated all the great points and excellent humor this thread has harvested!

We import $400B a year in fuel, which was painful enough during great expansive years...and now we are paying dearly for it! The subsidized price at the pump has been detrimental to accurate planning and technology investments. Never would have guessed my old FIAT would own antiquated Chrysler.

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post #30 of 36 Old 06-11-2009, 12:07 PM
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I fully agree that forcing people to do things is wrong. Everyone should have the right to buy an F-350, or a Hummer, or a Hayabusa. I just think that people should pay for what they use. Right now, city infrastructures are designed for people in cars, meaning we all subsidize big vehicles through our taxes. Foreign policy is largely centered around keeping oil prices low, so that income taxes are also effectively subsidizing oil consumption. The lost productivity and lost quality of life from air pollution and urban sprawl is huge - we all pay for that, too. No one should be told what to do, but no one should have to pay for other people's luxury items, either. I dread government regulation of everything, but it is not a simple choice between a government-mandated choice of vehicles and a free-for-all; the best choice is intelligent regulation that ensures that people pay for what they use and don't infringe on the choices of others.

People who suggest that there is an either/or choice between personal freedom and social responsibility are trying to polarize people into well-defined and easily-exploited tribes of 'left' and 'right'. The fundamental challenge of an adult citizen in a free society is to reconcile personal freedoms with social responsibility, not to choose between them.

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post #31 of 36 Old 06-11-2009, 12:34 PM
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My daily drivers are both oversized 4x4 vehicles. Do I need them all the time? No. Do I use them for their intended purpose, yes, but maybe only 1 or twice a month. Could I borrow a truck to haul, rip up, or tow? Probably, but why would I if I can have my own? I make more use from my people hauler (Envoy XL) and my stuff hauler (Silverado 1500) than many, but I don't HAVE to own them.

The people who bother me are the ones who have a fully loaded hummer, but it has never seen a spec of mud or even been shifted into 4 wheel drive.

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post #32 of 36 Old 06-11-2009, 11:34 PM
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I think we should do what the government thinks is best. I mean, they were right about Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan?, Cuba, Osama, Israel, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, fiat money, the federal reserve, torture, patriot act, subsidizing corn, subsidizing big oil, subsidizing anyone else with a lobbyist, bailing out anyone with a lobbyist…. I know I know, I’m forgetting lots of great things the government has done for us, but that just makes my point all the more clearer….you should want the government making the fewest possible decisions for you as possible.
I agree with many of the comments above and it just reinforces my fondness for people in this forum. I keep telling my wife that “I like these people!” I guess stupid people that get into riding don’t typically last too long. I hope that I’ll be around a while.
Btw: this thread has encouraged me to ride my bike (the one with pedals, est. 650 mpg!) to work tomorrow. I was planning on it anyways, but too often I flake out and ride the 919
Another btw: the continued decline of the dollar will probably force Americans to consider more efficient means of transportation. No need for the gov. to get involved. Besides, isn't the gov. always telling us to spend to "stimulate the economy" when wastefull consumption is the worst thing for the environment.

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post #33 of 36 Old 06-12-2009, 05:27 AM
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i think the government should mandate that every car and truck be covered in a 6" thick layer of that stuff they make mattresses out of and you see the infomercial with the guy throwing the egg at it and the egg don't break.... yeah... i wouldnt mind getting hit by a car wrapped in that stuff...

and while we are at it lets mandate that if you are 40 pounds over your ideal weight no resturant can sell you a high calorie meal... just imagine the fun of your spring salad while everyone else gets that steak.....

and lets mandate that by the age of 10 you must be fluent in at least 2 languages and if you are not then you go to "reassignment" camp for a year and then if you still cannot speak they put you down for the good of the gene pool....

and how about mandate if you are driving under the influence and fail a field sobriety test on the second offense they can execute you on the side of the road.. pow one behind the ear... with a clause where if you cause a accident or death by driving drunk you can be executed on the first offense...



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post #34 of 36 Old 06-12-2009, 09:31 AM
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When I started riding you could pull in behind a line of cars and see all the way to the front. Now, no chance you're boxed in and blind. Suburbans were something that a contracter had to haul tools and materials, not because the bag of soccer balls was too big.

Families were bigger then too, 6-9 kids on the farm was the norm. They all fit in a car still though.

Out here we call those trucks "Alberta Sportscars" They're big, they're hung with every gizmo you can imagine and they're spotless, never seen a days hard use and most of the drivers can barely lift a case of pop into the box nevermind watching them try and scramble up into the cab.

As much as I agree with anyone's twisted logic to justify big cars, or fast bikes there is a breaking point, all that big junk got on the roads because of the greed of the auto makers to turn over profit at the expense of quality and real world perfomance.

Now it's all gone bad for them and I hope it'll be the silver bullet for the SUVs and the like.

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post #35 of 36 Old 06-12-2009, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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I could have sworn this thread was started in safety and not P&P! Please return it?

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post #36 of 36 Old 06-12-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prtsimmons View Post
I fully agree that forcing people to do things is wrong. Everyone should have the right to buy an F-350, or a Hummer, or a Hayabusa. I just think that people should pay for what they use. Right now, city infrastructures are designed for people in cars, meaning we all subsidize big vehicles through our taxes. Foreign policy is largely centered around keeping oil prices low, so that income taxes are also effectively subsidizing oil consumption. The lost productivity and lost quality of life from air pollution and urban sprawl is huge - we all pay for that, too. No one should be told what to do, but no one should have to pay for other people's luxury items, either. I dread government regulation of everything, but it is not a simple choice between a government-mandated choice of vehicles and a free-for-all; the best choice is intelligent regulation that ensures that people pay for what they use and don't infringe on the choices of others.

People who suggest that there is an either/or choice between personal freedom and social responsibility are trying to polarize people into well-defined and easily-exploited tribes of 'left' and 'right'. The fundamental challenge of an adult citizen in a free society is to reconcile personal freedoms with social responsibility, not to choose between them.
Outstanding!

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