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post #1 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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OH DEER!

Not to worry - this is not a deer encounter report.

I was just perusing the pages of the winter issue of Iron Butt which is a great resource and you don't have to be an Iron Butt Association member to subscribe to the magazine. Anyway, I ran across an insightful article. Living squarely in the middle of Bambiland, sightings in my subdivision are a daily occurrence. There are routinely 6 to 12 white tail in my back yard almost every dawn and dusk. Needless to say I want to do everything possible to avoid a strike. The article touched on: wearing safety gear (you bet I do) and rider awareness, such as scanning side to side, increased probability dusk and dawn, heads down grazing or up and alert, expecting one deer to be followed by another, etc. Check. The author also suggests practicing quick stops and evasive maneuvers. Check. The best defense of course is getting the heck off the highway after dark and getting a room. I also slow down at night and let other vehicles pass, as the author notes, and then pick one, usually the biggest to follow utilizing its headlights and bumpers. He went on to re-affirm my opinion that a deer carcass emerging from under the truck ahead would be easier to dodge than a deer in a dead run. He warns not to follow too closely though - deer guts are the slipperiest substance known to man.

What I did not know, which was the crux of the article, was that if impact is imminent, it is imperative that you accelerate! Now it makes perfect sense. Hard braking transfers weight to the front wheel making the bike harder if not impossible to control in a collision. Ya learn something new every day.
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-31-2012, 10:51 PM
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Makes sense but I hope I never find out... Had a VERY close miss a little over a year ago, I think I could have grabbed her big white tail as she ran in front of me.

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post #3 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 02:24 AM
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I had a mini-sized grizzly bear run out from behind me passing through the Tetons...

Did I say mini-sized? It was still bigger than me and my bike. Talk about a "whew" moment.

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post #4 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
I had a mini-sized grizzly bear run out from behind me passing through the Tetons...

Did I say mini-sized? It was still bigger than me and my bike. Talk about a "whew" moment.
I had a brown bear run across the road in front of me near Luray Caverns in Virginia. It wasn't a close call but still made my heart skip a beat.

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 07:20 AM
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The advice is stupid and contradictory. The worst thing you can do is to accelerate in that situation.

If it is inevitable that you will hit the animal, then by definition you cannot manoeuvre around it. Therefore you don't need to control your motorcycle and the primary objective is to reduce the impact speed as much as possible. Here's an example from a recent MAIDS study that shows just how much the reduction in speed reduces the chances of injury:



First of all, some simple physics shows that generally it is far better to brake than to swerve in almost any emergency, since braking does the most important thing: reduces the impact speed. Check out the explanation on the Brake or Swerve: Not really a viable choice from the Motorcycle Safety Site:

Quote:
Assume that you are riding along at 40 MPH and an obstacle appears in your path. Let's say that you can attain a 0.8g rate of deceleration with your brakes. That means that you could come to a complete stop, on your wheels, in just 66.7 feet of braking.

Okay, so let's say you have 66.7 feet between you and the object when you start to swerve and let's say you do an aggressive swerve with 0.5g's of lateral acceleration (your bike is leaned over at 30 degrees - the MAXIMUM that most Harley-Davidson cruisers are capable of attaining). The amount of lateral movement you can achieve in that 66.7 feet is only 6.2 feet! That's about half the width of a car.

If you still run into that obstacle despite your aggressive swerve, you will hit it at 40 MPH. Considering that your handlebar extends to the right and left of your bike's centerline by more than one foot, you can be sure in this scenario that you could NOT have avoided the collision.

Swerving is NOT a viable choice.
Consider also that braking practice is in itself much safer than swerve practice (you DO practice emergency braking regularly, don't you?). It takes around half a second after you've locked the brakes for the motorcycle to destabilise enough to make a fall inevitable. But if you practice braking from 50 km/h, even the half second that the tires do not grip as well, reduces your speed so much (especially considering that you will have already scrubbed off some speed before the brakes lock), that at the end you can more or less just dismount from a nearly stationary toppling bike.

However, if you practice swerving and have a low-side at 40-50 km/h, the speed is quite enough to break bones if you tumble. I practice a lot at our official examination grounds (which are used as a first step of riders' license exam - if you fail the closed course, you are automatically disqualified from further testing) and have seen a few falls. Almost all falls that occur after/during braking are non-events, with minimal damage to rider and bike. Almost all falls that occur during the obstacle avoidance are semi-serious affairs, with motorcycle damage and bruises almost inevitable.

The maximum lateral acceleration and lean in the example are for a large cruiser, for which both are is lower than on sports bikes. But the greater manoeuvreability of a nimbler bike is more than offset by the unpredictability of animals. If it crosses the road from your right, you swerve to the right and the animal decides to turn back, you're now screwed and heading directly towards the animal without the option to swerve back. And if you have taken the advice, you will have raised your speed!

How stupid that decision is, becomes clearer if you consider the fact that across whole of the Europe the speed limits in cities dropped from 60 km/h to 50 km/h in the last 20 years. This is because the pedestrian mortality rates have been shown to halve with just a 10 km/h reduction in speed. And the 30 km/h limit in the critical zones around schools and other areas where pedestrians are most vulnerable, reduce the number of deaths by a further factor of 5!

In a motorcycle-deer crash the rider is essentially a pedestrian being hit by a small car. Thus hitting a large animal at 60 km/h instead of 30 km/h increases your chances of dying or receiving injuries by an order of magnitude!

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post #6 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 10:31 AM
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Slide bike sideways.

Pass under animal while removing pocket knife.

Slice off animal parts, tender ones....... in payment for motorcycle damage.

Seek medical attentian, but retain animal part for smoker and later jerkey.

Enjoy animal part smoked as a jerky while gaining strength in state run hospital at care by husky femal type nurser.


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post #7 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa View Post
Slide bike sideways.

Pass under animal while removing pocket knife.

Slice off animal parts, tender ones....... in payment for motorcycle damage.

Seek medical attentian, but retain animal part for smoker and later jerkey.

Enjoy animal part smoked as a jerky while gaining strength in state run hospital at care by husky femal type nurser.

Finally!! Something that makes sense! If I'm going down I'm takin the critter with me

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post #8 of 18 Old 01-01-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
I had a mini-sized grizzly bear run out from behind me passing through the Tetons...

Did I say mini-sized? It was still bigger than me and my bike. Talk about a "whew" moment.
Bet you scared him off with Tuono replacement parts prices!

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post #9 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Bet you scared him off with Tuono replacement parts prices!
Nah, I was on the 9er at the time! Had way more money in that than I've spent on the Tuono so far.

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post #10 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Nah, I was on the 9er at the time! Had way more money in that than I've spent on the Tuono so far.
Before or after the Ohlins upgrades on the T?

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post #11 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Before or after the Ohlins upgrades on the T?
AFTER. Then again, I attacked the T with performance mods first (suspension VERY first, followed by aftermarket pipes with better flow, cat mods, airbox mods, Stebel horn). Most of what I started with on the 919 was for looks (powdercoat, powdercoat, ceramic coat, etc.)

The rear Ohlins for the T was CHEAPER than the 919 Ohlins. No remote preload adjuster might be why. Forks were though.

FYI, just scored some $600 rearsets and a rear master cylinder with integrated reservoir (for a KTM) for $290... I don't want to scrape pegs at the track anymore, don't think my butt can take the clenching!

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post #12 of 18 Old 01-02-2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it

AFTER. Then again, I attacked the T with performance mods first (suspension VERY first, followed by aftermarket pipes with better flow, cat mods, airbox mods, Stebel horn). Most of what I started with on the 919 was for looks (powdercoat, powdercoat, ceramic coat, etc.)

The rear Ohlins for the T was CHEAPER than the 919 Ohlins. No remote preload adjuster might be why. Forks were though.

FYI, just scored some $600 rearsets and a rear master cylinder with integrated reservoir (for a KTM) for $290... I don't want to scrape pegs at the track anymore, don't think my butt can take the clenching!
I'm thinkin that 5.2gal tank scared the shit out of him! I know it freaks me out!!

:buell:
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanK View Post
The advice is stupid and contradictory. The worst thing you can do is to accelerate in that situation.

If it is inevitable that you will hit the animal, then by definition you cannot manoeuvre around it. Therefore you don't need to control your motorcycle and the primary objective is to reduce the impact speed as much as possible.
Sorry, I didn't quote the entire article. By all means try everything to avoid impact, reduce speed as much as possible and IF there is time to react, get back on the throttle solely for the purpose of transferring weight off the front wheel. There would not be time to actually increase velocity. The writer goes on to cite that frequently the rear comes up and over after a frontal impact while hard on the brakes. That is what the technique is designed to avoid. I have also read rare accounts of "riding through" a deer hit and staying up. I have also read that a deliberate lowside is never advisable.
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 12:46 PM
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This advice is very applicable on dirt as well. Many times I've come around a corner only at speed, only to find a downed tree or root in front of me. Stop if you can, but if you can't, you NEED to get that front tire up and over, otherwise it's going to hurt very bad. It's completely about changing the way the bike is going to handle the impact, nothing about speed.

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post #15 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Phenix

Sorry, I didn't quote the entire article. By all means try everything to avoid impact, reduce speed as much as possible and IF there is time to react, get back on the throttle solely for the purpose of transferring weight off the front wheel. There would not be time to actually increase velocity. The writer goes on to cite that frequently the rear comes up and over after a frontal impact while hard on the brakes. That is what the technique is designed to avoid. I have also rare read accounts of "riding through" a deer hit and staying up. I have also read that a deliberate lowside is never advisable.
http://youtu.be/q5e6jXmaOZM

http://youtu.be/eMscYMehV8E

And my personal favorite...

http://youtu.be/rGJ0fJN10YY

Bottom line if a decides to step out ur fucked, I have lots of elk around here, they travel in herds of about 10-30....so? Let me get this straight.....I'm suppose to accelerate throuuuugh the herd of 1000lb animals!? :wtf: ya don't have to beleive everything ya read

:buell:
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 03:21 PM
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*sharpass pocket knife*

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post #17 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa
*sharpass pocket knife*
Or was thinking of mounting a big mad max V-plow to the Gix and sharpen it, then go find some critters to slice up

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post #18 of 18 Old 01-03-2013, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplash97 View Post
motorcyclist hits deer and keeps going! - YouTube

Motorcycle hits deer and crashes - YouTube

And my personal favorite...

Race Car Hits Deer - YouTube

Bottom line if a decides to step out ur fucked, I have lots of elk around here, they travel in herds of about 10-30....so? Let me get this straight.....I'm suppose to accelerate throuuuugh the herd of 1000lb animals!? :wtf: ya don't have to beleive everything ya read
Once while out on a particularly twisty back road after midnight, I had a close encounter an enormous black bull standing in a blind curve. I was already looking for deer and traveling at less than 30mph but it still scared me shitless. So yes, colliding with a 1000# animal at speed = you're screwed. However, replace that elk with a 120# white tail fawn and your chances improve. Not to be crass but your 2nd video makes the authors point: deer strike while hard on the brakes = bike goes end over end. Motorcycle hits deer and crashes - YouTube
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