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post #1 of 77 Old 09-08-2006, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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My Offer To You

Okay...

No sales pitch here, no specials, no plugs, no requests for support.

This site has given me more in friendship that one could imagine, and I feel I feel I have a way to give back here.

I was just surfing around looking at suits on the market and what is out there and I as I was explaining things to a friend of mine, I realized I started getting angry. WHY?

I realized I was getting angry because manufacturers actually believed they could possibly build and sell a suit for $250 and save a life and riders too believe they can go on ebay and buy a suit for $250 and be safe.

Look people. I don't care if you don't buy any particular brand, Alpinestars, Veloce, SPIDI, Dainese or whoever. But please, please, please..... don't be fooled by any killer deals out there... they can REALLY become killer deals.

Yes, I realize my involvement may make me start sounding like some self righteous oaf about this - I apologize. But.... as I progress into this, I realize that I feel obliged to offer at least what little knowledge I do possess.

If you are out shopping for suits - especially track / riding suits - and would like some independent advice, thoughts or suggestions, please feel free to email me at [email protected]. Identify yourself by your w/t screen name and let me know what you are looking. I will give you as much information as I can provide.

There is a reason an Alpinestars or a Dainese costs so much - it is not always just a name you pay for. The smallest design features impact how a suit will perform - not just for comfort, but also for safety. For every dollar you save, you might be increasing your risk factor.

Okay... enough ranting for now. I will come back to this to discuss design features and why they are used or not used and what limitations there are out there.

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post #2 of 77 Old 09-08-2006, 03:06 PM
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I agree. I always wanted to say that when people are looking for the bargain basement suits but I feel that if I say something they will think I'm cocky because of the suit I have.

+1

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post #3 of 77 Old 09-08-2006, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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I know it's hard to justify the cost of things like suits, gear, etc. But believe me Rag, I praise you for your choice - and it is nice to be fortunate to be able to afford a Dainese. I realize maybe not everyone can afford a high dollar suit - but! Remember, you don't have to break the bank to get decent protection.

I don't mean to sound self righteous, but after a few crashes - please learn from me, not your crunched or cracked bones, filleted fleshe or burnt skin.

Dainese not only puts a lot of thought into their suits, they take the time to buy the best leather out there to add to the survivability of a suit and it's comfort. Also, when you construct a suit well, you can crash in it and expect to be able to use it again.

One of the biggest falacies out there is removable / adjustable armour! Walk away from that sign board please! Armour should not be movable! If you need more on that, let me know.

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post #4 of 77 Old 09-08-2006, 04:17 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that in my suit, armor is locked into place.

When I was trying to figure out which suit to buy, I was also looking at Spidi suits, also pricey. One day I was at a race at Daytona and a guy was walking by with a rashed up Spidi suit, started talking to him and he said he crashed in that suit 4 times! Said he feel safe in it still. He also said he started out with a Joe Rocket suit of some sort and that it came apart on him in it's first crash. He said he had it fixed up and went down again and it held up ok. I know another local guy that had a JR Nicky Hayden jacket( I used to own the same jacket) and he crashed at about 50 and the whole thing came apart on him, not good for a $500 jacket.... but I hear stories about JR often. I don't want to toss this thread off track(yes I do) but anyone else have that experience?

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post #5 of 77 Old 09-08-2006, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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There are a lot of stories about JR's and Teknics. Things that affect a suit are the stitching, the type of material or leather, the type of thread even, and also your panels - how are they attached, etc.

Now.... you consider a Dainese, I remember sometime back, they actually had a machine made for them which can literally sewn up seams from inside. That means the holding stitches are not exposed so they do not burn up on impact, so you can repair the superficial damage and ride again. What did this monster machine cost - over $20,000.

And then you have SPIDI - I was once told that one of the people started Dainese went off to start SPIDI and that is why if you look back over time, you see similarities in design between both lines. Kinda like the guy who designed the Aston Martin Vantage, DB9 and DB7 designed the new Jag XKR - you see the resemblance immediately. Everyone one has a certain trademark way of doing things.

Working to make a human body survive what can potentially be a 100 MPH+ impact with hard tarmac is not an easy or cheap task. Not for the manufacturer and not for the consumer.

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post #6 of 77 Old 09-09-2006, 09:37 AM
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I have heard this applied to many things and think it works here.

"A cheap suit ain't good and a good suit ain't cheap."

I have JR and it seems to be OK. Knock on wood no test of durability.

I plan on buying a 1 piece as the JR is a 2. I hear there is a rocking new company starting a line.

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post #7 of 77 Old 09-09-2006, 09:52 AM
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YUP!!! I heard about the company too! I hear they will even make you a custom suit.

-Mercedes- or you can call me YaYa
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post #8 of 77 Old 09-09-2006, 10:08 AM
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i haven't read too many testimonials on JR stuff coming apart...mostly i 'hear' second hand info...that and i know bad stitching when i see it and JR is slack there for sure

having said that, i gotta be honest, i've tested my old JR Speedmaster 2pc more than once and it's held up well enough...on grass/dirt/mud and low speed tarmac slides/tumbles/crashes but i don't want to keep pushing my luck

i want/need a new suit and hope to have it b4 any highspeed tarmac slide testing is performed


oh yeah, and i want to be able to replace armour after a crash, not that i like the way stuff can move in the JR setups...but then again, my suit is so tight, the pads don't have a chance to move

which brings me to fitment...i think that's pretty key and the best route is a custom fit, it just has to be...so uh, basically the bottom line on this thread is pretty obvious

SUIT PLEEZ

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post #9 of 77 Old 09-09-2006, 10:14 AM
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oh and dude, i know you already have your little hotbody chick suit model but hey, if you need a slow riding fat bald guy to really drive up the sales...look no further

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post #10 of 77 Old 09-09-2006, 12:09 PM
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I am a cheaper bastard and only paid $1200 for my first suit (Bates) back in 95' then cheaped out again with $1500 Zooni! Quality? Ahh, I just wanted the bling!

Safety Shmafety!



...by the way, dont drink and ride pit bikes in the paddock after hours at the local club race weekends with out wearing your gear!

-Dave



"I live my life in a confused haze only to be interrupted by moments of brilliance..."

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post #11 of 77 Old 09-10-2006, 05:34 AM
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I'm in the midst of updating some of my gear since switching bikes recently. Would love to hear feedback from WIM and everyone here on the quality of various gear (brands) over on my post in the textile/leather/mesh forum. Thanks!

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post #12 of 77 Old 09-11-2006, 07:17 AM
 
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I bought the suit I currently have off of ebay
$400 after shipping for a $1000 never been worn Tecknic with all manf tags.
Ass seams blew out though after 2 crashes.
I would rather buy from a distributer/manf now that I know what I know. For all I know that suit may have been made in korea to replica it. Who knows. I know a guy that was stationed in Korea and they made him a Ben Bostrom replica for like $300, the quality was **** but

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post #13 of 77 Old 09-11-2006, 01:24 PM
 
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I have a Joe rocket suit...works for me. I cant afford 1K for a suit. I have never crashed in it though. However my brother has crashed multiple times (4 to be exact) in his tecknic jacket and it was rashed but still did the job. So say what you will...his saved his skin more than once.

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post #14 of 77 Old 09-11-2006, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turn_1 View Post
I have a Joe rocket suit...works for me. I cant afford 1K for a suit. I have never crashed in it though. However my brother has crashed multiple times (4 to be exact) in his tecknic jacket and it was rashed but still did the job. So say what you will...his saved his skin more than once.

The point here is that any suit or gear is better than none. And... no one is assuming we can all afford a $1K suit. However, the truth of the matter is that a $1K suit is going to be better than a $500 suit. That said, you can still further seperate them by type - like a $1K custom suit versus a $1K Off The Rack suit.

Teknic has come a long way in development of their suits. What you bought three years ago would not compare to what they make now. However, there is a reason they still don't cost $1K - unless you buy the Speedstar of course.

I am curios though, what kind of crashes did your brother have? High sides? Low sides?

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post #15 of 77 Old 09-11-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIM-RC51 View Post
I am curios though, what kind of crashes did your brother have? High sides? Low sides?
Haha... I have to laugh when thinking about it. That one crash was NOT funny at the track. Just thinking of the situations now that years have past and he's ok, it's funny. I'll let Turn_1 explain them.

The Jacket.

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post #16 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 05:22 AM
 
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The worst was a lowside around 80mph at our local track. Ended up breaking his wrist in the tumble, but didnt lose any skin. He crashed doing a wheelie at probably 45....crashed doing an endo (which ragdoll got on tape) probably only going 25 when he actually hit the ground....and crashed while trying to dismount the highchair position, around 55-60mph. I think thats it. The only thing he never did was highside. And I was always there to pick his arse up off the ground. Dumb kids.

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post #17 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turn_1 View Post
The worst was a lowside around 80mph at our local track. Ended up breaking his wrist in the tumble, but didnt lose any skin. He crashed doing a wheelie at probably 45....crashed doing an endo (which ragdoll got on tape) probably only going 25 when he actually hit the ground....and crashed while trying to dismount the highchair position, around 55-60mph. I think thats it. The only thing he never did was highside. And I was always there to pick his arse up off the ground. Dumb kids.

Okay... I was curios. I am going to discount the low speed lowside type accidents. Most or just about any gear should survive that. At least I would hope and expect so. The 80 MPH low side is one of interest, typically, this is where burst seams or stitching might happen. The rider falls on the ground and then initiates a long slide along pavement or tarmac. This causes friction which in turn burns through stitching and also heats up the inside of the jacket or gear. Weak stitching or cheap stitching would usually completely come apart here. However, in your brother's case, sounds like he tumbled quite a bit. What that means is his body was probably not in constant contact with the ground, therefore he would have been making contact at the primary points like the shoulders, elbows, and of course the broken wrist - which could have occured from landing on his palms.

When you have things like a high side which lofts the rider up in the air, or any accidents that creates a tumble or a roll, your greatest concern would be the protective armour in the suit. Most manufacturers by pretty much standard armour that will prevent severe injury in such cases. All said and done though, your brother seems to have lucked out with a good jacket at least. Remember, the Teknics is in the middle of the range of gear. Not the completely low end or cheapest.

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post #18 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:17 AM
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When he had that lowside, the left arm zipper failed and burst.

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post #19 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragdoll View Post
When he had that lowside, the left arm zipper failed and burst.

Hmmm... that is not good. Metal zippers should not break open that easily, I could have sworn Teknic used YKK zippers. Did he break the left wrist?

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post #20 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
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Did he break the left wrist?
Yaaap.

Turn_1 would have to confirm this for me, but I think that out of 5 'dismounts' that I remember him having, he never touched the ground with his helmet.

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post #21 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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I guessed on that. However, it could mean that when he had he 80 MPH low side, he also tumbled as Turn_1 said. If he was cartwheeling or say his arms were outstretched, the wrist area of the left arm would hit or impact the ground rather hard - with the potential to break the zipper clasp which would then open the zipper or cause it to fail. That impact may also have caused the break.

What kind of gloves was he wearing?

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post #22 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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What kind of gloves was he wearing?
Veloce?




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post #23 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:35 AM
 
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Veloce?
ya know you're just asking for trouble, right?

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post #24 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIM-RC51 View Post
I guessed on that. However, it could mean that when he had he 80 MPH low side, he also tumbled as Turn_1 said. If he was cartwheeling or say his arms were outstretched, the wrist area of the left arm would hit or impact the ground rather hard - with the potential to break the zipper clasp which would then open the zipper or cause it to fail. That impact may also have caused the break.

What kind of gloves was he wearing?
Him and I have the same gloves. Teknic of some sort. They were the $130-$140 ones, not low end. I bought mine after he had 2 decent spills and the gloves still looked great. I was a believer. After about 18000 miles of riding though, my palms are coming apart.


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post #25 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:37 AM
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ya know you're just asking for trouble, right?
I'm bored




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post #26 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
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After about 18000 miles of riding though, my palms are coming apart.

KY???

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post #27 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragdoll View Post
Him and I have the same gloves. Teknic of some sort. They were the $130-$140 ones, not low end. I bought mine after he had 2 decent spills and the gloves still looked great. I was a believer. After about 18000 miles of riding though, my palms are coming apart.


WHOA! Can you tell me the name and what year you bought it? I am curios to see the design. Teknic gloves sometimes don't have enough protection around the Carpal bone which is what impacts the ground and can cause the wrist to literally snap at the joint.

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post #28 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
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KY???
Hmmmmmmm looks more like lotion and a sock scuff marks.




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post #29 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:48 AM
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Check it out dude



Alright, I got this...



Maybe not.



Aw crap!


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post #30 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:49 AM
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Need lessons?




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post #31 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:52 AM
 
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It wasnt actually his wrist it was the little bone by the thumb...took forever to heal. I dont remember the name. He did slide for a ways...then he said he thought he was going slow enough to try to get up and tumbled a few times to a stop.

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post #32 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 10:52 AM
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This is the glove we have.

This link gives you all the info you'd want on it, Wim. Made in 2002.

I would buy them again if I haven't already boughten some imaginary gloves from Wim.

I liked the kangaroo leather palm most of all, thin, soft, and comfortable.

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post #33 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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That is not a bad glove. BUT! For some reason, they don't seem to last long or farewell over time. I have a newer version of the Violator, and it is falling apart at the seams and seems well worn. Motorcyclist also did a review on them once before and had complaints that it was not a great track glove because the rider who crashed at 65 MPH sustained injuries and the gloves did not hold up as well as expected.

Again... might just be cheap materials used. Turn's brother probably broke that bone from hard impact with the ground. Not much any glove can do about that - unless we start making them from metal. One thing I would as far as padding on a $100+ glove would be wrist protection on the inside of the hand as well..... right behind the thumb. Most leave that open.

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post #34 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
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KY???
The force is strong in these young warriors, derailment not working.




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post #35 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:11 AM
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The force is strong in these young warriors, derailment not working.
You guys hear something?

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post #36 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
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I liked the kangaroo leather palm most of all, thin, soft, and comfortable.
how does it hold up to stains???

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post #37 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
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how does it hold up to stains???






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post #38 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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how does it hold up to stains???


Okay.. I just went to the Dark Side of The Force

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post #39 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
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how does it hold up to stains???
Not so well... that's the last time I borrow them to you and your life partner.

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post #40 of 77 Old 09-12-2006, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
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Not so well... that's the last time I borrow them to you and your life partner.

When did RC90 take over Rags body?




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