Lanesplitters Beware - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Lanesplitters Beware

Quote:
By Signal Staff
Posted: Feb. 12, 2009 11:53 p.m.
Updated: Feb. 13, 2009 4:55 a.m.

A Valencia man died after a four-vehicle freeway crash involving drivers all from the Santa Clarita Valley.

Aaron Braden, 29, was heading north on Interstate 5 south of Interstate 210 Wednesday afternoon when another vehicle pulled into his path, throwing him from his 2007 Suzuki motorcycle and into the rear bumper of a 2007 Chevrolet Avalanche, according to a California Highway Patrol report.

According to the report, Tjader France of Canyon Country was driving his 2002 Mercedes "at a near stop" in traffic in the carpool lane, when he pulled out of the lane and into the path of Braden, who was driving between lanes of traffic at an unknown speed, deputies wrote in a report.

Braden's motorcycle continued riderless and crashed into the rear of a 2007 Honda Fit driven by Lisa Schellert of Castaic, according to the report.

Braden was declared dead at the scene by paramedics from the Los Angeles County Fire Department.

There were no reported injuries to the other drivers, and investigators did not suspect alcohol played a role in the crash.


---> http://www.hometownstation.com/local...2-12-09-3.html


Just be carefull out there, that's all...

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post #2 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 06:14 PM
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Damn. I do that in that spot pretty frequently. Luckily most of the time i make that trip isn't during rush hour.

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post #3 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 07:11 PM
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Hey Mike, is it illegal to split the carpool lane and the #1 lane? I NEVER split there because of the possible huge differencial of traffic speeds. Of course, the guy jumping out of the carpool lane, crossing the double yellow is illegal. I see that move all the time.

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post #4 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 07:45 PM
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Personally...I never do this and I'd suggest not doing it period...You never know what people are going to do when they are frustrated, sitting in traffic...

Unfortunate that this happend and is sad to hear.


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post #5 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 07:53 PM
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That's sad, but exactly why I don't split lanes. I get passed all the time by lane splitting cowboys. A couple times I caught them...when they were layed out. Those images made me lose my lunch.

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post #6 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugs View Post
Hey Mike, is it illegal to split the carpool lane and the #1 lane? I NEVER split there because of the possible huge differencial of traffic speeds. Of course, the guy jumping out of the carpool lane, crossing the double yellow is illegal. I see that move all the time.
No, it's not. I see motorcycle LEOs doing it all the time. You can even ride on the double yellow and get away with it.

I always slow down when traffic comes to a stop. That's when most of the illegal lane changes happen. I've had a few close calls a couple of years ago, but not any since I quit using the rear brake and learned to change lanes with the cages that cut you off, instead of trying to stop.

Always assume drivers don't see you and don't go too much faster than traffic.

BTW I've had to kick a few doors and break a couple of mirrors because of crap like this. I don't know what it is, but when someone almost takes me out, I get a little pi$$ed.

Be safe...

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post #7 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokali View Post

BTW I've had to kick a few doors and break a couple of mirrors because of crap like this. I don't know what it is, but when someone almost takes me out, I get a little pi$$ed.

Be safe...
such violent behavior... i would never think of hitting someones car and expecially their mirrors... then how will they see behind them??

you should be a safe rider and stay in your lane instead of weaving and whooping up the middle like some crazy heck's angel on your motorcycle scaring all the decent folks...

i don't know what to think about you hooligans... behavior like this will lead to smoking drugs and dancing...

and a simple i am sorry won't do young man.... you must give me your gixxer 750 as punishment...



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post #8 of 40 Old 02-13-2009, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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i so sowwy

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post #9 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 06:38 AM
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When I live in Socal I used to lane split quite frequently. You have to remember that a: People aren't paying attention b. Only go 10-15 mph faster than traffic speed. c. Always know where your opening or escape route is.

Personally would only do it when traffic was completely stopped. Doesn't make much sense unless it's under 30mph on the freeway.

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post #10 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuonoR6 View Post
When I live in Socal I used to lane split quite frequently. You have to remember that a: People aren't paying attention b. Only go 10-15 mph faster than traffic speed. c. Always know where your opening or escape route is.

Personally would only do it when traffic was completely stopped. Doesn't make much sense unless it's under 30mph on the freeway.
That there is the key. Sorry to hear about the death. But, with proper speed control and attentiveness ... you may get into an accident but not die if properly geared and at a low speed.

Having spent a bit of time in Cali ... I see motorcyclist going a a very high rate of speed when splitting. You should always expect a cager to switch lanes unexpectidely.

It's better to have loved and lost than live with the psycho for life!
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post #11 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX View Post
That there is the key. Sorry to hear about the death. But, with proper speed control and attentiveness ... you may get into an accident but not die if properly geared and at a low speed.

Having spent a bit of time in Cali ... I see motorcyclist going a a very high rate of speed when splitting. You should always expect a cager to switch lanes unexpectidely.
Yeah that's right! Everyday I see hardened cycle commuters split when traffic is 55, split at 70! Those guys are wacked thinking it's a phony video game, NO PAIN/DEATH IS REAL! Schedule your time better to leave early and always explain to folks ahead of time you are meeting with you may be late. Please don't be in a hurry and die or worse.

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post #12 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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I've had two cars jump into the same opening from both sides, funneling me in. That was a close one, since there was no way out; quick braking learned from doing track days saved the day ...

I split lanes whenever traffic slows below speed limit (65 mph), just don't go much faster than traffic. 10-15 mph faster is about right.

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post #13 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokali View Post
I've had two cars jump into the same opening from both sides, funneling me in. That was a close one, since there was no way out; quick braking learned from doing track days saved the day ...

I split lanes whenever traffic slows below speed limit (65 mph), just don't go much faster than traffic. 10-15 mph faster is about right.
Wow you are dare devil! Please slow down buddy and do the safe racing on the track. Don't be in such a hurry to take unnecessary risk.

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post #14 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Wow you are dare devil! Please slow down buddy and do the safe racing on the track. Don't be in such a hurry to take unnecessary risk.
I'll try. But really not racing out there...

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post #15 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:35 AM
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Sokali ... be safe man!

The human body can only tolerate so much blunt trauma force. I'm not certain of the "lane sharing" and "lane splitting" laws of Cali and too lazy too look them up right now. But, I would have to guess that prudent, safe and reasonable are in order.

Thinking like a safety geek at this point ... I would put limits on the need to split. My personal threshold of safety is if traffic is traveling under 25mph and limiting my speed to 5-10mph faster than traffic while splitting. At these parameters, I believe I would most likely be able to walk away from an incident unless something freakish happened.

Just my $.02 ... not judging, just concerned! Am I sounding old?

It's better to have loved and lost than live with the psycho for life!
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post #16 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, you guys are right.
I'll have to re-evaluate my street riding strategies.

Thanks for the concern...

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post #17 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokali View Post
Yeah, you guys are right.
I'll have to re-evaluate my street riding strategies.

Thanks for the concern...
It might just be my age showing? I now calculate all potential "outcomes".

Example: Say you have a 20 mile commute. At 60 mph you will get there in 20 minutes. Even at 35 mph lane splitting you are only adding 12 minutes your commute.

Don't get me wrong ... I unfortunetly still do stupid things. But, calculate the variables a bit more these days. I have been know to go WOT on a sweet 2 mile stretch of empty highway near my home at times. or a bit to fast through some empty curves now and then.

It's better to have loved and lost than live with the psycho for life!
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post #18 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX View Post
I would put limits on the need to split. My personal threshold of safety is if traffic is traveling under 25mph and limiting my speed to 5-10mph faster than traffic while splitting. At these parameters, I believe I would most likely be able to walk away from an incident unless something freakish happened.

Just my $.02 ... not judging, just concerned! Am I sounding old?
I agree. This is also my policy for lane splitting. I know it is different for everyone tho...

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post #19 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:00 AM
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i personally have never exceed the posted speed limit and have never split lanes.. that is illegal here in florida...

you people are bad examples...



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post #20 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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soooo... doing wheelies is legal?




EDIT: Brian, you got dibs on my Tuono...

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post #21 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokali View Post
soooo... doing wheelies is legal?




EDIT: Brian, you got dibs on my Tuono...
i honestly only can power wheelie... i cannot stand it up on the back tire and run it a mile down the road like those stuntaz... just power wheelies...


and schhhwweeeet!!!! dibs!!!!!!!!!!



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post #22 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
i honestly only can power wheelie... i cannot stand it up on the back tire and run it a mile down the road like those stuntaz... just power wheelies...


and schhhwweeeet!!!! dibs!!!!!!!!!!
So power wheelies are legal?

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post #23 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Brian,

I hear ya on the wheelies, same here...

But I can learn how to from the CSS. Kieth can teach you how to do wheelies.

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post #24 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
i personally have never exceed the posted speed limit and have never split lanes.. that is illegal here in florida...

you people are bad examples...
Don't be such miss goody two shoe I think it is safer to split lanes than not to, especially here in SoCal . Of course you have to take a lot factors in to consideration, and don't try to break the sound barrier while you're passing traffic, if done right it's another tool in our arsenal to be able to use. I've had more close calls when I follow my really conservative friend on his Harley, who never splits lanes or go faster than traffic.

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post #25 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mantelhonda View Post
Don't be such miss goody two shoe I think it is safer to split lanes than not to, especially here in SoCal . Of course you have to take a lot factors in to consideration, and don't try to break the sound barrier while you're passing traffic, if done right it's another tool in our arsenal to be able to use. I've had more close calls when I follow my really conservative friend on his Harley, who never splits lanes or go faster than traffic.
lol... thats MR goodie 2 shoes to you... and i misbehave pretty much anytime i am on the bike... i speed i pass on the right... i split lanes and thats illegal here in florida...what are they gonna do?? chase me??

what you read what chutzpah and a cheap attempt at humor..



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post #26 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
such violent behavior... i would never think of hitting someones car and expecially their mirrors... then how will they see behind them??
It's OK Brian, most cagers don't use their mirrors anyways!

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post #27 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
It's OK Brian, most cagers don't use their mirrors anyways!
yeah i saw some of those videos rob put up of his ride to work....



you cali guys have some crazys there... we have crazys here... at least you guys have curves in the roads...


sighhh



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post #28 of 40 Old 02-14-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
lol... thats MR goodie 2 shoes to you... and i misbehave pretty much anytime i am on the bike... i speed i pass on the right... i split lanes and thats illegal here in florida...what are they gonna do?? chase me??

what you read what chutzpah and a cheap attempt at humor..
finally some honesty

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post #29 of 40 Old 02-15-2009, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ummm, yeah. If you look in the dictionary for the meaning of "honesty", it has Barton's picture instead...

Back to the dangers of lanesplitting. Here's a couple of comments from members on a local forum: "Splitting lanes over the double yellow between the carpool and the #1 lane is not legal, nor is passing people inside the carpool lane, no matter what side of traffic you pass. (There must be two lanes going the same direction before you're allowed to lane share. The double yellow between the carpool and #1 lanes negates this.)

As a former motorcycle messenger who split lanes for 250,000 miles in 5 years, I can tell you that the safest place to split is between the 1 and 2 lanes, if for the only reason that it's where people expect you to be, and as a rule, it has the least amount of people actively changing lanes.

In theory, riding the double yellow should be safe since no one's supposed to cross it, so I see the logic in that way of thinking, but this guy found out the hard way that people can and will do anything it takes to kill you. Even if it's completely unintended. And if there is an accident, you'll be at least partly at fault since you were riding illegally as well.

I agree also that it seems like no one expects a bike to come up beside them in traffic, but if everyone split between 1 and 2, then the people in those lanes would be constantly being passed by bikes, and hopefully that would wake them up enough to look for us before changing lanes. Wishful thinking anyway.

When I was making a living splitting lanes, I was constantly aware that no matter what the lawyer I was working for told me, it was not worth my life just to make it to court in time to file a document, so I would keep my speed to a maximum of maybe 5 to 10mph faster than traffic. That seemed survivable to me.

Fortunately, I never had the opportunity to find out. I hope none of you do either.

Oh, and remember, the gap is your enemy. If there's an open space next to a car, he's going to pull into it."

Response from another member: "This might be another reminder to ride safely, but I wouldn't try to say that splitting the HOV lane is the cause as if it increased the chances of something bad happening.

You might have put in a lot of miles on the freeway, MotoD. But I see motorcycle cops split the HOV lane all day long and I think they do a lot of riding too.

I haven't done as much freeway riding, but I do enough. Personally, if I want to split lanes, it will always be the HOV and #1 lane. I couldn't give 2 s**** if it's illegal or not either. Everyone does it, including every single motor cop I've seen on the freeway. I split only when traffic is stopped or at slow speed when 2 cars are parallel with each other. I also hit the high-beams in the daytime and sometimes rev a bit if I know a driver doesn't see me.

Even with all the safety precautions, you can still get hit and die. It's really sad and that's life. What can you do."

I'm with the second guy.

Be safe out there...

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post #30 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 07:57 AM
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Someone should talk to an LEO and find out if it's legal to split there or not. I'm with the first guy, and he states it's not, though gives no vehicle code to back himself up. The second guy is kinda funny, quote-"I couldn't give 2 s**** if it's illegal or not either. Everyone does it, including every single motor cop I've seen on the freeway."-end quote. This reasoning won't stand up in court. I see LEO's driving cars and motorcycles in a manner that is illegal for the rest of us all the time, doesn't mean we can do the same thing.

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post #31 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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I've followed LEOs lanesplitting between HOV and Lane 1...

And I don't think it's safer to split Lanes 1 and 2. Cage drivers are not used to seeing riders split lanes there; almost every rider splits between the HOV and Lane 1.

The second guy's reasoning may not hold up in court, but he's using the safer option.

Don't know where I read this: "I'd rather be a live a-hole, than a dead nice guy".

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post #32 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugs View Post
Someone should talk to an LEO and find out if it's legal to split there or not. I'm with the first guy, and he states it's not, though gives no vehicle code to back himself up. The second guy is kinda funny, quote-"I couldn't give 2 s**** if it's illegal or not either. Everyone does it, including every single motor cop I've seen on the freeway."-end quote. This reasoning won't stand up in court. I see LEO's driving cars and motorcycles in a manner that is illegal for the rest of us all the time, doesn't mean we can do the same thing.
That's a key point. LS may not stand up in court. You must always carry enough insurance to patch yourself, or worst case pay off the mortgage for surviving relatives. There are too many unpredictable idiot cagers doing the wildest unsafe manuevers. I don't care whether they are insured or not (many aren't! ), I don't need to take extra risk to arrive there 5minutes sooner, or not at all! So I don't LS, if someone is tailgating too close I change lanes and make them pass.

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post #33 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Dream, I understand your point, but have to disagree. I don't think it's safe to not split lanes in rush hour traffic. I don't like the idea of someone texting messages behind me while negotiating bumper to bumper traffic. I see it all the time.

So, I don't split to save time, I do it for safety.

And I'm fully aware of the dangers involved, which is the main reason why I'm "wasting" a lot of money on track days and riding schools in order to increase my chances of survival on the mean streets of L.A.

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post #34 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 09:11 AM
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i just dont ride where i need to lane split. i hardly ever see that kind of traffic. of course i hardly ever see roads that are smooth enough to ride like that

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post #35 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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i just dont ride where i need to lane split. i hardly ever see that kind of traffic. of course i hardly ever see roads that are smooth enough to ride like that
yeah but vermont has like 14 cars in the whole state...



down here this morning i had to be at MIA for 9 a.m... on a holiday i took me 45 mins to go 23 miles..... ...........

i split lanes as i got into miami... on 826 and 836 and rc90 will tell you the traffic there is horrible... i had 2 state troopers and at least 3 or 4 miami cops see me doing it and none of them seemed to have a problem with it...

the smartest thing to do in any case... is as follows..

1. just be careful...
2. try not to do anything too stupid...
3. watch those idiots in the cages..
4. ride like you are surrounded by retards... *cause you are
5. ride offensively...

i have to agree with sokali on this one... split between the hov and 1st lane... or don't split at all...

i NEVER slow down and let a car pass me... i speed up and get the hell away..



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post #36 of 40 Old 02-16-2009, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
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Dream, I understand your point, but have to disagree. I don't think it's safe to not split lanes in rush hour traffic. I don't like the idea of someone texting messages behind me while negotiating bumper to bumper traffic. I see it all the time.

So, I don't split to save time, I do it for safety.

And I'm fully aware of the dangers involved, which is the main reason why I'm "wasting" a lot of money on track days and riding schools in order to increase my chances of survival on the mean streets of L.A.
well said,

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post #37 of 40 Old 02-18-2009, 02:26 AM
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As to the LEOs doing it, they are the worst offenders for most traffic laws around here. I get dang tired of seeing them speed, never stop for stop signs, turn right on red with barely a tap of the brakes, make u-turns wherever they please, and never use a blinker for any of it. You would think they should be setting an example instead of driving like morons but.... I need to start videotaping these guys so that someday so when I get a citation I can ask the judge why they get to do it, and we can't.

Lane splitting can be useful if done carefully but sometimes the guys who have to split up to the front at every light give bikers a bad name. Luckily I do not ride in heavy traffic often, but will split lanes if traffic makes me feel comfortable with it. Around some interchanges and such the people who have waited until the very last second to pick their lane will make a mess of traffic, and it is like trying to ride through a blender.

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post #38 of 40 Old 02-18-2009, 03:49 AM
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I used to ride that sretch on an almost daily basis when I was stationed out in SoCal with the military...So many near-death experiences....and yeah, quite a few dented doors or broken windows from my boot, cause I don't react well to THAT kind of stress. Yes, it is LEGAL to lanesplit like that in California, and not so much where I live now in Colorado, but sometimes its gotta be done. to my mind, its part of why I have a bike...gotta get some of that freedom to ride! I do agree that limiting your speed when splitting is a good idea. go as fast as you feel like, as long as you maintain your ability to react to a bad situation, and have a ready escape route ALWAYS! Staying alive is key!

I love Barton's posts...I could butter my bread with the sarcasm dripping off his goody-two-shoes routine in this thread! He's a funny guy to be sure, but looks aren't everything!

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

"The Shadow"
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post #39 of 40 Old 02-18-2009, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
 
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Just don't try drag racing him.

I'm not trying to push track days, but they have made my commute much safer. My reaction time has improved, along with quicker decision making.
I don't have as many close calls now and can move along with the cage that makes an illegal lane change in front of me, instead of trying to stop.

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post #40 of 40 Old 02-18-2009, 08:47 AM
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The last I heard of the lane splitting laws here in cali was that you were to lane split at a speed no faster than 5 mph faster than traffic. The speed limit for lane splitting is 15 mph. Which means once traffic goes faster than 10 mph, we have to join back in. We were talking about this at base security last July. We are not supposed to be lane splitting on base though.

Knowing this I have my own rules on lane splitting. I lane split between HOV and lane 1 whenever that is there. The double yellow gives a bit more room. I expect people to dart out in front of me, try to stay within 5 mph of traffic, and stop when traffic hits 35-40 mph. That last one depends on congestion. Whenever I join traffic again I look for a cager not using a cell phone.

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