ATGATT - Here Comes The Preacher Man! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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ATGATT - Here Comes The Preacher Man!

ATGATT - All The Gear All The Time!

It is a simple acronym but carries a lot of weight and value. It is based on the premise that you never know when an accident can occur.

We all know that riding on two wheels is dangerous enough... blah blah blah... yadee yadda yadda. Yes, we have heard it all before. However, we really need to take this term to heart and try as much as possible to "live" by it.

Yes, I sound like a preacher right about now. However, someone pointed out that a lot of members have gone down in the last few months. Though I can't point out any fatalities, there have been enough injuries to take into consideration.

When considering ATGATT - or whether to wear gear or not, forget about things like heat, comfort (As in I want to walk around), or the best of all - HOW I LOOK! You will look like a total ninny when you are on an ambulance gurney crying about an injury you could have avoided had you looked "smart" as in wearing your gear.

I am not here to slam anyone who crashed sans gear. We have all been guilty of it. I am here saying we need to really think smart about this issue and try to live by it.

There is way too much gear out there that offers protection for anyone, with any riding style. Whether it is strap on knee protectors, full suits, armoured jackets or whatever. There is WAY too much out there to excuse yourself from protection. Remember, all the fun you have and could have can be stopped by one accident.

I am not going to talk about bad driving cagers, idiot drivers and / or riders. There is no need. The point is - PROTECT YOURSELF. You don't weld without protective eye wear, you don't hammer a nail in the dark and you don't have un-protected sex with a gal you don't know - right?

Why are you riding without protection.

ATGATT - It is the only to ensure you keep having fun and coming home to talk about it.

My .02 Preacher Worth!

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post #2 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 12:49 PM
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Preach On

I couldn't agree more. Preach on Old Wise One.
ATGATT - All The Gear All The Time!

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post #3 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 12:57 PM
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why do people smoke

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #4 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 01:00 PM
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This time, I'm staying out of this argument. I may be a slow learner, but I ain't stupppidd.

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post #5 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 01:00 PM
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why do people smoke
Because they are on fire.

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post #6 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 03:45 PM
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well if they someone...hint hint... would make some dang protective flip flops it would be a much easier decision

all kidding aside I couldn't agree more with you. I am always ATGATT from the waist up but not always from the waist down, I need to work on that.

I Don't try to explain to people why I ride a motorcycle
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For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."

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post #7 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 04:16 PM
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You are preaching to the Choir! J/K
Thanks for the PSA!

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post #8 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 07:34 PM
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Because they are on fire.

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #9 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 07:39 PM
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Does a normal pair of jeans qualify for ATGATT?

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post #10 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lmtdgov View Post
Does a normal pair of jeans qualify for ATGATT?
does to me

dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
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post #11 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtdgov View Post
Does a normal pair of jeans qualify for ATGATT?
Hell to the no. Ask the guys hereabouts with messed-up knees. You know how long those flippers take to heal?

My knee's only still intact because I listened to the preachers and bought myself some textile pants with knee armor before I crashed.

So testify, mah bruthers. Sing it!

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post #12 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lmtdgov View Post
Does a normal pair of jeans qualify for ATGATT?
John McEnroe, "You cannot be serious!"

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post #13 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtdgov View Post
Does a normal pair of jeans qualify for ATGATT?
if you have safety pants/shorts on underneath they do......



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post #14 of 41 Old 10-07-2009, 09:47 PM
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I could not agree more. There has been one too many accidents on here lately. ATGATT is a must. Whether you are riding around the block, or going cross country. Something else to take into consideration is some sort of riding class, such as MSF's Experienced Riders Course. Just to keep us on our toes, so we hopefully can avoid testing out our gear. No matter how well you ride, there is always room for improvement.

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post #15 of 41 Old 10-08-2009, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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I just want to state, I am not on this thread to argue with anyone or try to impose my ideals / principles on anyone.

If you think a pair of jeans qualifies as safe, then the consequences are on you. The answer is obvious and need not be addressed.

When I ride, my hope is that I have a great time, I blast through turns - even sometimes at break neck speeds with my knee pucks scrapping the road. I might even indulge a silly wheelie or two in the canyons - I however want to come back home every time to share those stories, not tell it from a hospital bed with severe injuries because I did not wear gear as it was just a "casual" ride.

There is just TOO much stuff on the market today to have any excuse for not wearing some protection. Alpinestars and even Dainese (some of the highest priced gear out there) have knee protectors costing less than $30. A visit to a Doctor costs at least $75 to $150, that is before they plunge a horse sized syringe into your busted up knee. Total cost then shoots up to around $300. Even with insurance, you still have your co-pays. Add to it the lost time from work, etc. All of a sudden, that $30 knee protector does not look too bad.

I am not picking on anyone that already crashed, I believe we all learn our lessons. However, why not learn from them and prevent it.

Not to pick on Basspiece, but he just posted a "Whoops" thread. You should read it.... it is the classic case of the "casual" ride to get some food and a 25 MPH crash. The rider is left with a raspberry on ....... (drum roll)...... HIS KNEE! He is okay, but it could have been worse.

Also ask Barton what he thinks, he kinda alludes to it in his response about jeans.

Take note if you want and don't if you choose not to. At the end of it, the final choice is your's. Just be willing to also bear the consequences should anything happen.

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post #16 of 41 Old 10-08-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Hell to the no. Ask the guys hereabouts with messed-up knees. You know how long those flippers take to heal?

My knee's only still intact because I listened to the preachers and bought myself some textile pants with knee armor before I crashed.

So testify, mah bruthers. Sing it!
Yeah, I'm one of those guys with a messed up knee that was wearing jeans. Ask my other buddys in the messed up knee club as well, I'm pretty sure they'll agree with me when I say I lament the fact on a daily basis that I wasn't wearing protective pants.

I've bought several pieces of protective gear since I've been laid up and when I finally get back on my bikes I will be totally and completely armored at all times. Those of you who haven't wrecked may not understand that, and hopefully your time never comes, but motorcycle gear is a shining example of that old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"!

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post #17 of 41 Old 10-08-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila-RC51 View Post
Condoms
It is a simple protection but carries a lot of weight and value. It is based on the premise that you never know when an accident can occur.

We all know that riding is dangerous enough... blah blah blah... yadee yadda yadda. Yes, we have heard it all before. However, we really need to take this to heart and try as much as possible to protect ourselves

Yes, I sound like a preacher right about now. However, someone pointed out that a lot of members have gone down in the last few months. Though I can't point out any fatalities, there have been enough injuries to take into consideration.

When considering protection - or whether to wear or not, forget about things like heat, comfort (As in I want to walk around), or the best of all - HOW I LOOK! You will look like a total ninny when you are on an ambulance gurney crying about an injury you could have avoided had you looked "smart" as in wearing your protection.

We have all been guilty of it. I am here saying we need to really think smart about this issue and try to live by it.

There is way too much protection out there that offers protection for anyone, with any riding style. Whether it is strap on , full suits, armoured or whatever. There is WAY too much out there to excuse yourself from protection. Remember, all the fun you have and could have can be stopped by one accident.
Teen-Pregnancy.gif


The point is - PROTECT YOURSELF. You don't weld without protective eye wear, you don't hammer a nail in the dark -right?

Why are you riding without protection.


My .02 Preacher Worth!


Great Marketing Strategy....

You should consider working for a condom company as well...Just throw in a picture and change a few words and bam! My editing was a lil lazy but still works.

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post #18 of 41 Old 10-08-2009, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WheelieTime View Post
Great Marketing Strategy....

You should consider working for a condom company as well...Just throw in a picture and change a few words and bam! My editing was a lil lazy but still works.
And people wonder why CBRXX doesn't care to expand on his thoughts and comments.

If it was for marketing purposes, I would not be mentioning A-Stars and Dainese. Glad the message got across in it's entirety mate.

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post #19 of 41 Old 10-08-2009, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Aquila-RC51 View Post
And people wonder why CBRXX doesn't care to expand on his thoughts and comments.

If it was for marketing purposes, I would not be mentioning A-Stars and Dainese. Glad the message got across in it's entirety mate.

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post #20 of 41 Old 10-12-2009, 09:55 AM
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Hey preacher man, I'm looking for some overpants (currently in jeans) to provide a little extra protection. I couldn't find any on your website and am greatly confused by the number of offerings on the market. Since everyone gives their textile a different name, it's hard to know what you are getting.

That's why I'm asking you...it seems that you are in a position to know more about apparel than most. What would you recommend? What would you avoid? I know that leather would be best, but it just doesn't fit my riding style. I commute and ride with my wife for "touring" if you will. However, I'm not against doing a twisty on occasion.

Here's what I'm looking at, what do you think? Tour Master Caliber Textile Motorcycle Overpants :: New Enough, LTD

Thanks!

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post #21 of 41 Old 10-12-2009, 10:24 AM
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Maybe someone should post a specific list of what ATGATT truly is. Obviously jeans don't provide the highest level of protection, but most people don't suit up in full leathers every time they go riding either. It's just a matter of finding an acceptable trade off between risk and comfort/practicality.

Currently I ride most days to work in a normal pair of jeans. I do have a pair of "riding" jeans that have heavy denim and double layers of it in places (some knee pad inserts too, but I don't see how those would work very well when they aren't secured to the knee). Lately I've been looking at buying one of these: Knox Contour Back Protector. I guess when I hop on the bike I'm more more major injuries then a cherry on my knee. That said, I would like to see what people use in place of jeans or what knee pads they like that can be put on and taken off with out too much hassle.

barton, your link took me to car ads with Nissans

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post #22 of 41 Old 10-12-2009, 12:58 PM
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After slab surfing at 70mph recently I now wear all the armor I can stand.

The alpinestar knee armor in the pic takes 15 secs max to put on.

That's my knee below right after the crash. (crappy cell phone pic from the hospital).

Steve
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post #23 of 41 Old 10-13-2009, 01:02 AM
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I didn't even think of strapping them on the outside of my pants. I may give that a shot. I used to have a pair of mtn bike dh pads just like those...too bad I gave them away a few years ago.

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post #24 of 41 Old 10-13-2009, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmtdgov View Post
Maybe someone should post a specific list of what ATGATT truly is. Obviously jeans don't provide the highest level of protection, but most people don't suit up in full leathers every time they go riding either. It's just a matter of finding an acceptable trade off between risk and comfort/practicality.

Currently I ride most days to work in a normal pair of jeans. I do have a pair of "riding" jeans that have heavy denim and double layers of it in places (some knee pad inserts too, but I don't see how those would work very well when they aren't secured to the knee). Lately I've been looking at buying one of these: Knox Contour Back Protector. I guess when I hop on the bike I'm more more major injuries then a cherry on my knee. That said, I would like to see what people use in place of jeans or what knee pads they like that can be put on and taken off with out too much hassle.

barton, your link took me to car ads with Nissans
I will see if there is something that can be compiled. It is difficult since there are so many choices out there. Your idea of the Knox back protector is a good one. In keeping with that thought pattern, try to go with gear that is specific to motorcycling as it will be coated against abrasion or heat / friction. regular jeans are not and they wear like mad when they hit the ground. I am definately with you about non-fixed armour or non-secured armour. You can get the type of stuff Mayday got, or get riding pants which you can remove once you get to your destination. It is always best to get something snug or that you can tighten onto yourself. As with most accidents, the major impact areas are head, elbows, shoulders, knees and hips - REALLY try to protect your hips!

Let's keep discussing and I will keep digging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayday View Post
After slab surfing at 70mph recently I now wear all the armor I can stand.

The alpinestar knee armor in the pic takes 15 secs max to put on.

That's my knee below right after the crash. (crappy cell phone pic from the hospital).

Steve
Steve - Really good to see you up and about mate! Sadly, practical experience is sometimes the best teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekker View Post
Hey preacher man, I'm looking for some overpants (currently in jeans) to provide a little extra protection. I couldn't find any on your website and am greatly confused by the number of offerings on the market. Since everyone gives their textile a different name, it's hard to know what you are getting.

That's why I'm asking you...it seems that you are in a position to know more about apparel than most. What would you recommend? What would you avoid? I know that leather would be best, but it just doesn't fit my riding style. I commute and ride with my wife for "touring" if you will. However, I'm not against doing a twisty on occasion.

Here's what I'm looking at, what do you think? Tour Master Caliber Textile Motorcycle Overpants :: New Enough, LTD

Thanks!
I will start by saying anything is better than nothing. The pants you selected look like a good choice. A lot of panelling and stitching on it, but it does not impact cordura as it does leather.

If that is your choice - go for it!

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post #25 of 41 Old 10-13-2009, 09:03 AM
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lmtdgov,

I have an extra pair of over pants I rarely wear. One, they are too big and two I typically go with leather or another pair of protective pants I have. If you are interested you can try them out.



Aquilla,

Speaking of protection....any word on some ladies gloves for my lady? Have not heard back from you in a while. She needs a thicker pair for cooler days.
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post #26 of 41 Old 10-13-2009, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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lmtdgov,

I have an extra pair of over pants I rarely wear. One, they are too big and two I typically go with leather or another pair of protective pants I have. If you are interested you can try them out.



Aquilla,

Speaking of protection....any word on some ladies gloves for my lady? Have not heard back from you in a while. She needs a thicker pair for cooler days.
Umm... yeah dude. Been waiting to hear from you. Check your PM's matey.

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post #27 of 41 Old 10-13-2009, 02:39 PM
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In my 50 years of riding I have removed enough skin from my legs to make a large lampshade, broken fingers and toes from getting tangled up with the bike, and generally ended up pretty sore for a couple days. The only major injuries I've gotten would not have been mitigated by any gear available at the time, or even now. The point is gear can do only so much.

Go ahead and get the best gear you can afford, especially the helmet, but by far the most important part of ATGATT is thorough training from the MSF or other accredited class and more importantly learning from every ride -- meaning the best protection is prevention. Additionally, take a karate class: it will teach you how to fall without hurting yourself, yes even at speeds well over 100. You probably don't have to ask how I know this.

One last thing -- despite wearing leathers I have peeled off goodly stretches of skin from my shins, oddly enough without any major damage to the leather. I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for this.

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post #28 of 41 Old 10-14-2009, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
In my 50 years of riding I have removed enough skin from my legs to make a large lampshade, broken fingers and toes from getting tangled up with the bike, and generally ended up pretty sore for a couple days. The only major injuries I've gotten would not have been mitigated by any gear available at the time, or even now. The point is gear can do only so much.

Go ahead and get the best gear you can afford, especially the helmet, but by far the most important part of ATGATT is thorough training from the MSF or other accredited class and more importantly learning from every ride -- meaning the best protection is prevention. Additionally, take a karate class: it will teach you how to fall without hurting yourself, yes even at speeds well over 100. You probably don't have to ask how I know this.

One last thing -- despite wearing leathers I have peeled off goodly stretches of skin from my shins, oddly enough without any major damage to the leather. I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for this.

Rob
Rob - I daresay your injuries would be worse without gear at all. Also, there have been significant advances in safety apparel manufacturing in the last 50 years or so.

As far as your question about skin of the shins with leathers on - that is usually due to friction, heat transfer and polyester inner liners. When you slide, there is of course enough friction caused that heats up the leathers - with lower cost brands the inner liner is usually a nylon derivative or polyester. This burns / melts with the heat and causes heat / abrasion rash on the skin.

While I agree with your points about additional training and such, I will still say gear is better than no gear and any gear cannot be considered negligible.

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post #29 of 41 Old 10-14-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila-RC51 View Post
Rob - I daresay your injuries would be worse without gear at all. Also, there have been significant advances in safety apparel manufacturing in the last 50 years or so.

While I agree with your points about additional training and such, I will still say gear is better than no gear and any gear cannot be considered negligible.
Apparently I misstated my point.
I will never argue against proper gear, but all gear has limitations, and I've always found that not crashing is infinitely preferable to crashing.

What follows is very graphic. Those amongst you who would be disturbed by an up close and very personal description of a major accident involving two motorcyles skip the next paragraph.


You have been warned.

Picture a forearm being hit by the handlebar of an oncoming motorcycle at a total speed of about 60 mph. The Humerus took a shot at 18 Cm from the shoulder joint. It broke, the lower part of which tore through the bicep muscle and radial nerve on it's way out of the rest of the arm, protruding 15Cm. As the arm inside the jacket sleeve unwrapped itself the hand was slingshotted down to be trapped against the engine cases, crushing the 2nd through 5th Metacarpal bones. I was wearing jeans, a heavy leather jacket with no armor, combat boots, leather riding gloves with Metacarpal armor, and a Bell Star helmet.
The other rider died from a depressed skull fracture and subdural haemotoma, or exanguination resulting from a partial traumatic amputation of the left leg 4Cm above the knee joint proximal. He was wearing jeans, a tank top, deck shoes, and no helmet.

No gear made would have mitigated my injuries in the slightest with the possible exception of looking like Iron Man.

On the other hand, gear would have not only saved his life, if he was wearing knee armor he might have been able to walk away from the accident! Sore, but that would be about all.

Three points:
1 -- Properly fitted gear appropriate for the weather is very useful not only for the 0.001% (hopefully!) of the time spent crashing, but also for the other 99.999% of the time by making the ride more comfortable and therefore less distracting, freeing up your attention for much more important things.

2 -- ATGATT won't protect you against stupidity, either on your part or someone else's, but your chances of walking away from sliding injuries without a long convalescence or surgery improve significantly. Impact / collision forces are too high and unpredictable to gear for, nor would many be willing to shell out for armor capable of doing so.

3 -- As stated before, the best armor is a thorough ingrained knowledge of riding, all the subtlities of control inputs, and an awareness of your surroundings at all times. You would be amazed how many "Oh crap! Where did that car / dog / sand / meteorite come from?" moments are the result of inattention, not some sort of nefarious automotive plot to get you.

ATGATT is not a state of clothing, it is a state of mind that must include a consciousness of your responsibility for your own safety. Nylon, kevlar, and hardening foam aren't up to the task by themselves.

Rob

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post #30 of 41 Old 10-14-2009, 07:25 PM
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Rob, your posts are golden. Thanks.

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post #31 of 41 Old 10-14-2009, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayday View Post
After slab surfing at 70mph recently I now wear all the armor I can stand.

The alpinestar knee armor in the pic takes 15 secs max to put on.

That's my knee below right after the crash. (crappy cell phone pic from the hospital).

Steve
THAT'S what I've been looking for!

I commute in heavy traffic every work day, and wear helmet-gloves-jacket-boots every day.

What I do not have is any protection between the bottom of my jacket and the boots. I need something that I can wear over my work pants, and those (or something similar) look like a good solution.

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post #32 of 41 Old 10-15-2009, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Apparently I misstated my point.
I will never argue against proper gear, but all gear has limitations, and I've always found that not crashing is infinitely preferable to crashing.

What follows is very graphic. Those amongst you who would be disturbed by an up close and very personal description of a major accident involving two motorcyles skip the next paragraph.


You have been warned.

Picture a forearm being hit by the handlebar of an oncoming motorcycle at a total speed of about 60 mph. The Humerus took a shot at 18 Cm from the shoulder joint. It broke, the lower part of which tore through the bicep muscle and radial nerve on it's way out of the rest of the arm, protruding 15Cm. As the arm inside the jacket sleeve unwrapped itself the hand was slingshotted down to be trapped against the engine cases, crushing the 2nd through 5th Metacarpal bones. I was wearing jeans, a heavy leather jacket with no armor, combat boots, leather riding gloves with Metacarpal armor, and a Bell Star helmet.
The other rider died from a depressed skull fracture and subdural haemotoma, or exanguination resulting from a partial traumatic amputation of the left leg 4Cm above the knee joint proximal. He was wearing jeans, a tank top, deck shoes, and no helmet.

No gear made would have mitigated my injuries in the slightest with the possible exception of looking like Iron Man.

On the other hand, gear would have not only saved his life, if he was wearing knee armor he might have been able to walk away from the accident! Sore, but that would be about all.

Three points:
1 -- Properly fitted gear appropriate for the weather is very useful not only for the 0.001% (hopefully!) of the time spent crashing, but also for the other 99.999% of the time by making the ride more comfortable and therefore less distracting, freeing up your attention for much more important things.

2 -- ATGATT won't protect you against stupidity, either on your part or someone else's, but your chances of walking away from sliding injuries without a long convalescence or surgery improve significantly. Impact / collision forces are too high and unpredictable to gear for, nor would many be willing to shell out for armor capable of doing so.

3 -- As stated before, the best armor is a thorough ingrained knowledge of riding, all the subtlities of control inputs, and an awareness of your surroundings at all times. You would be amazed how many "Oh crap! Where did that car / dog / sand / meteorite come from?" moments are the result of inattention, not some sort of nefarious automotive plot to get you.

ATGATT is not a state of clothing, it is a state of mind that must include a consciousness of your responsibility for your own safety. Nylon, kevlar, and hardening foam aren't up to the task by themselves.

Rob
Rob - I appreciate your thoughts and feedback, and we could spend all day arguing about the semantics of each other's statements. Your comments seem to say protective gear holds less relevance or importance because of the 0.001% (haven't researched that number yet) chance you have of crashing. That one in a million chance of crashing is exactly what gear is for. Not for looking good, not just for peace of mind, etc. Gear is there for that one moment in time when it matters the most - the crash. From your post, the other rider might still be around today if he had appropriate gear on. In his case, a helmet being one of the most fundamental pieces of gear he was not wearing.

I agree that training and pro-active actions are an important part of ATGATT, but I disagree that they are the MOST important part of it. I would say a balance between training and gear. Those "Oh crap" moments that you can't save are again what the gear is there for - so is the riding skill, the experience, the bike (yes - the bike), etc.

Another thing, with the amount of research and data available these days there is actually a fair amount of predictability to the design of gear. You can design for a range of velocity, trajectory, impact points and approximate things like body mass and g-forces. You can then "over build" your gear to try to prepare for the worst or higher range of events. It is by no means a perfect science otherwise we would no longer have automotive fatalities.

You also touch on a point that is critical to ATGATT - whichever way you define it. Most people won't shell out for gear, or training.

I think if I was to paraphrase your closing, it would be something along the lines of, "ATGATT is BOTH a state of clothing and a state of mind that must include a consciousness of your responsibility for your own safety. Nylon, kevlar, and hardening foam aren't up to the task by themselves.

Like in flight training, having the right equipment is not the end of it, knowing HOW to use the equipment and its performance envelope matter.

I look forward to meeting you one of these days.

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post #33 of 41 Old 10-15-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila-RC51 View Post
I think if I was to paraphrase your closing, it would be something along the lines of,
"ATGATT is BOTH a state of clothing and a state of mind that must include a consciousness of your responsibility for your own safety. Nylon, kevlar, and hardening foam aren't up to the task by themselves.
That is better.

Hope to see ya soon. We'll have a go at solipsism.

Rob

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post #34 of 41 Old 10-15-2009, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
That is better.

Hope to see ya soon. We'll have a go at solipsism.

Rob

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post #35 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 09:45 AM
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ATGATT + common sense + proper maintance + other drivers being awake = untill you are an old man
Is this what ya'll mean?

[
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post #36 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 11:30 AM
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RC51 - Please advise...

I would like some advice...

I have Icon leather jacket and pants that have about an 18" zipper at the back to keep them together, I have decent motorcycle riding shoes with an aluminum buckle at the ankle, I have a cheap HJC helmet, and solid riding gloves with hard knuckles.

I also have a pair of heavyweight riding jeans with kevlar lining down the front of the legs, and from down the back of my thighs. These do not have knee armour.

When riding to work in my smallish town, having only 10-20 blocks of riding, I usually ride without the leather pants on, but simply use the kevlar lined pants.

now, any time I take a deliberate ride with the bike, I put on my leather with full armour.

Here is my dilemna... My riding jeans are motorcycle specific riding pants, that I'm sure have been scientifically tested for the type of riding I'd ecpect on the short ride to work. I understand they do not have knee armour. I also understand that my leather jacket only has a foam pad for back armour

Basically, I am wearing ATGATT according to the fact that these are not street jeans, however, I also understand that I do not have a 360 degree zipper on my leathers, and I"m sure there is much better armour for my back, knees, elbows, and shoulders. So, without trying to justify any of my choices, does ATGATT have some sort of minimum needed? Would I if I could afford it, purchase a 1-piece leather suit with fully certified racing armour, knee sliders, knee high hard racing boots etc.

Conversely, should knowing that I have leather pants mean that I would no longer wear the riding jeans? is it a matter to always upgrade to the best possible technology no matter what?

Just to add conversation to an important topic, and to get a little off topic, does the fact that my minivan has better crash ratings suggest that I should choose to drive that rather than my Miata convertable?

consider this a bump rather than an argument.

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post #37 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 12:03 PM
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Am I a little punchy today, or did that guy act like he wanted advice and then start an argument???

By the way, motorcycles are more dangerous, statistically than cars, and leathers are safer than draggin jeans, somewhere in there is a point.

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post #38 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Am I a little punchy today, or did that guy act like he wanted advice and then start an argument???

By the way, motorcycles are more dangerous, statistically than cars, and leathers are safer than draggin jeans, somewhere in there is a point.
Seriously, I guess I feel a little guilty that I choose to ride in the "motorcycle jeans" I know there are much better gear there, and I know though these are specialized motorcycle jeans, that they do not have armour etc...

mostly, it would be nice to have someone help me justify that "these are gear" though I know in my heart that there is better gear, and in fact I do own better gear... and to follow the ATGATT, I must wear the absolute best that I can afford, and certainly the best that I own.

the advice???
do I never again ride with these riding jeans? or on a short commute do I have justification to ride with them at safe speeds... since they are sold as protective motorcycle wear... and knowing I have better gear handy, my own advice is at best to use them as underpants worn under another layer of specialized riding gear...

so, again, part of me is just keeping a very important post on peoples minds.

However, therin lies the argument... where does ATGATT end? and conversely, where does anything end... there will always be developed better gear, safer cars, faster computers... and at some point, a decision must be made, that my computer is fast enough, my car is safe enough, and I have the best gear that I need...

So, as you can likely see from my tone, I don't particularly feel that my heavyweight riding jeans qualify as ATGATT, and at times, I question the full safety of my two piece leather outfit. however, I also choose to ride my motorcycle on days that it is clearly safer to drive the steel cage that I use to transport my child in.

what I do like, is the fact that discussion in itself leads people to at least think - therein leaves them the freedom to act.


RG

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post #39 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 04:24 PM
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Although my back is now straight (kind of), I'm still not sure what you want to hear. I can tell you that I ride in motorcycle jeans every summer, and I usually don't worry too much about it.

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post #40 of 41 Old 10-21-2009, 04:48 PM
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Have I mentioned I'll never ride without full armor again? I have? Ok, just thought I'd mention it again because my freakin knee still hurts like hell!

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