Are most dealers profit whores? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Are most dealers profit whores?

So I've notice that the rotation of gear being sold at two large dealers changes every season. Particularly helmets. Do they just buy whatever is cheapest for them, no matter the brand or "quality". I've noticed it on jackets and pants too. And gloves. Anyone else notice this at their shops?

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post #2 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 05:38 AM
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I only frequent one Honda dealer here. For the most part he carries the same stuff, but sometimes has "deals" that are different lines.

It's somewhat tough for some dealers to sale gear. The local Honda shop owner told me he had to place a minimum order ($8 or 10K if I remember correctly) to become an Alpinestar distributor. Lots of times they just buy leftover stock from some other dealer who is having trouble unloading it.

Add to that the local Cycle Gear has taken a lot of gear business from the dealers also.

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post #3 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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I wonder if that isn't a better way to go. Bikes parts service at one facility, riding gear at another. I'd love to see all the brands at one store so I could feel it up and know better what I wanted. I suppose they all have to be whorish a bit. Business aint free.

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post #4 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 06:11 AM
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My favorite dealer only carries a small quantity of gear, because it can be hard to make money on gear (i.e., the internet and changing trends of style). There is one dealer in the area that has a huge quantity of gear, and a lot of folks go to that shop only to buy gear. But, a lot of the other shops in my area seem to do that buy the best buy method you are talking about...

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post #5 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 06:11 AM
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I wonder if that isn't a better way to go. Bikes parts service at one facility, riding gear at another. I'd love to see all the brands at one store so I could feel it up and know better what I wanted. I suppose they all have to be whorish a bit. Business aint free.
LH, Have you checked out the new Museum on Sheridan road? It's south of the old Ace Powersports on the East sideof the road.

You HAVE to go check that place out. Bring your digital camera!

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post #6 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 06:14 AM
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Your local dealer carries gear? Ours has a wide variety of AFX helmets. When I say wide variety, I'm talking sizes. 90% of them are the el-cheapo model and black. The other 10% are some alien head shaped Fulmer helmets that look really cool but are definitely made fore people with long skinny heads.

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post #7 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 07:36 AM
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the local shops here have gear. some gear. they at least have a basic set of everything you need. what they dont have is a nice selection of cheap-median-expensive or a good selection of brands. without going online it's impossible to gain a solid informed opinion of the differences of quality or even what's available. take them at their word at your peril!

Oh then everything gets marked up by 30% - 400%.

I was shopping for spark plugs for the 919 a few weeks back, and the parts mgr quoted me $12.79 ...I said, "Hey! that's a decent price for all four, I'll take em!" the parts mgr says"nononono...that's the price for one.

You can guess what I told him next...


...I was laughing uproariously when I said it, too.








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post #8 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
...

I was shopping for spark plugs for the 919 a few weeks back, and the parts mgr quoted me $12.79 ...I said, "Hey! that's a decent price for all four, I'll take em!" the parts mgr says"nononono...that's the price for one.

You can guess what I told him next...


...I was laughing uproariously when I said it, too.
I've upset our local dealer just about every time I walk in the door. I guess I shouldn't expect them to match pricing, have typical items (oil, filters, air filters, etc.) in stock, or have any gloves, boots, pants, or jackets at all.

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post #9 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
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SO you want a dealer to sell to you for the price of mailorder and manage to pay for employees to give you customer service.... hmmmm....

Dealers are profit whores and motorcyclists are penny pinching nannies.
MSRP is MSRP.
Do you go to the grocery store and bitch about the price of frosted flakes? I guess Food Lion is a profit whore. They should be in it for feeding the people, not profit, right?
I think the government should step in and tell the dealers what they should sell for!

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post #10 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 09:38 AM
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Bloaker, I don't know about Lemonhead, but I don't care to pay a little over the mail order price for stuff locally and I've paid nearly MSRP for my Helmet, Pants, and Boots from online retailers.

My problem is the lack of selection at my 'local*' stores... *We only have one bike shop in town, so I'm including the 4 or 5 shops in southern Indiana as well.

Also, you compare pricing of local, brick and mortar dealers to Mail Order. Sure, the mail order places don't likely have a showroom (I'm sure many do), but they still have plenty of fixed costs associated with their warehouse(s) and have customer service agents to work with customers via phone/email. I just don't buy into the whole story of how hard it is to run a brick and mortar store versus an online store. Besides, comparing a bike dealership to a gear outlet is sort of like comparing apples and oranges. Profit from gear sales should be volume driven, bike sales, sure, but not as much. It might take one motorcycle sale to profit $1,000 where you would have to sell 20 Jackets to recoup the same profit.

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post #11 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 10:04 AM
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I know people who will ride up to cycle cear and try on everything.
Then they go home and surf the internet to find the cheapest price and buy somewhere else.

I am all for saving money... but we are our own worst enemies when it comes to having a good store. To retain good people cost money. To front money for orders obviously takes a lot of moeny. To have a good service seciton takes money. Now... you wanna make a profit too, right? Or why else would you do it?

If there is a slow month in service, you either lay everyone off, or use profits to retain your people... but what does the consumer care... we just wanna save some money on a helmet. And that stupid kid behind the counter doesn't know crap...

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post #12 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 10:05 AM
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And as for my dealings... I do 90% of my stuff through one dealer. And they take care of loyal customers.

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post #13 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Now, when one says outlet, I think of last years designs, closeouts, discontinueds, etc. And yes it is hard for shops to compete with online.

What if, say, any online store, had a physical showroom. Like Denis Kirk (convenience). They usually get your order from a warehouse, no? Why not attach a showroom to the warehouse? Then we'd ride to shops more!

fwiw Bloaker, I've not bought any clothing online. The last thing I bought was my 350.00 ICON Leather Automag jacket. They didn't have my size in the store. the one I tried on was snug. I went plus 1 and they had it for me the next day. Maybe I paid too much. But I wanted a leather, I got to see the f/f firsthand, fitment and comfort were good, so I bought. When it comes to riding gear, I'm touchy feely. maybe that works to my benefit?

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post #14 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 04:57 PM
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I'm not a "feel it up and get some cheap elsewhere" kind of guy.

Doesn't work well with women or gear. I like to know exactly what I'm buying.

Let me feel around and I"ll probably purchase something because I was in the mood to buy to start with.

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post #15 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 06:49 PM
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I'm not a "feel it up and get some cheap elsewhere" kind of guy.

Doesn't work well with women or gear. I like to know exactly what I'm buying.

Let me feel around and I"ll probably purchase something because I was in the mood to buy to start with.
me either.....

i shoplift that shit..... i go put it on and then run for the door....

60% of the time it works 100%



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post #16 of 24 Old 04-16-2010, 09:45 PM
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I used to run a motorcycle store AND I used to deal with Alpinestars, Dainese, SIDI and the lot.

I will tell you now, please be kind to your dealers that take care of you. Their margins are EXTREMELY narrow and I mean extremely! Also, they do have minimum order requirements that they need to meet to be listed as a Dealer of some of the major brands. This for instance is why you don't see SIDI boots in every nook and corner.

The internet has become a nightmare to many dealers like it has to many other businesses world wide. Also, the mail order houses and every other entity that does not carry the same costs as a dealer ship.

A dealer not only carries parts, accessories and apparel. They often have a back workshop to help you the biker install your mods. That means employee costs, rents, stocking, waste and disposal, workers comp for a high risk job classification - which means high dollars, etc. So, when you come across a good dealer who treats you right, gives you great service and carries the parts you want - please appreciate them. They are a dying breed.

That said, a dealer with bad service is just that - a bad dealer. That type of dealership will die soon.

I can tell you this, if a dealer makes 15% - 20%+ off the MSRP of a item of apparel, he / she is lucky. To get that, the dealer has committed tons of money into inventory which amazingly enough is NOT easily returnable.

The market is changing, I fear not necessarily for the best. Sorry to say, but as Bloaker points out - Motorcyclists are cheap. I can empathize with why bikers might be cheap or frugal with money, don't get me wrong, but as a community we are wringing the last bit of money out of dealer's hands.

Then, when it comes to apparel, you now have this insane proliferation of brands and cheaper products on the market. I assure you that cheaper is what they are. I am sorry, but the fact it you get what you pay for - period. The Pakistani leather motorcycling industry for instance has done more to create a serious issue in the industry that you can ever realize. We are in a era of generic products. Most of the brands out there do not do R&D, they do not create unique designs, they do not spend time at a drawing board coming up with designs with the rider in mind. No! What is done is you partner with a manufacturer anywhere from Pakistan to China, and you bulk purchase something they came up with.... which they will sell to any Tom, Dick or Harry with enough of a purse to buy the bulk. There is no care as to how you sell it, how well it works or whatever. So... you see that Dainese copy of the Armoured Jacket on Ebay for $60, but you see Dainese's for $300? Well... I assure you, even though some of Dainese's MSRP is purely for the name - there are reasons why it costs that much.

In leather alone, there are about ten grades of leather you can acquire. From dirt cheap, to top end. So, when Alpinestars says Kangaroo skin, it is different to Joe Blog's Kangaroo skin.

Bloakers points and comments are spot on. Sorry CMurphy, you are wrong to think there is a fair comparison on cost between mail order and brick and mortar. Most mail orders houses contract out their calls to a call center where there is a $9/ Hour telemarketer who takes your order. If you doubt me, next time you call, ask the person if the leather naked leather or not, and what type of thread was used - Hybrid, nylon or kevlar and why... and then judge for yourself if that person even know the first thing about motorcycle apparel.

A smart dealer should take on a brand that provides them better margins, educates their staff and works directly with them. It is happening... a lot of major brands are now adopting Dainese's business model of selling directly to dealers and not through wholesalers.

God.. I could go on all night about this, sorry.

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post #17 of 24 Old 04-17-2010, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Please go on if you want to, Aquila. That's why I posted in the first place.

What can you tell me about brand rotation?

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post #18 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 03:50 PM
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Please go on if you want to, Aquila. That's why I posted in the first place.

What can you tell me about brand rotation?
It is both right and wrong to call Dealers "Profit Whores." Of course they want to make profit, that is they or anyone took on the risk of owning a business.

But in this field, making profit is harder than pulling dead teeth out of a crack addicts mouth.

Rotation is driven by margin, costs and sellability. The dealers has to find the balance between what he should stock, what he can afford and what his customers are willing to pay for. Go to a Suzuki dealership and then go to a Ducati only dealership. In the first one, you will probably find end of season Alpinestars stuff and Z1R helmets. While at the Ducati place, you will find Haga and Hayden Arai replica helmets and Dainese's latest and greatest... but in small stock.

You the consumer are driving demand right now and in a way supply too. When a dealer meets with his Parts Unlimited Rep, Tucker Rocky - he is presented with the latest and newest products, but then he sees MSRP's of $700 - $1200 for suits, and $300 - $600 for jackets from A-Stars, Teknic and all the other major brands. In his mind, he has to ask how many of his customer will pay that kind of price for these products. Trust me, if he is not purchasing that $8K - $10k amount from Parts or one of the major distributors, he is barely making 15 - 10% margin. With all this in mind, he also has to be careful what to stock and what amount as he probably gets a 15 - 20% re-stocking fee for stuff he does not want.

So, with all this in mind and considering again that most motorcyclist are out for the lowest price bargain they can find, the dealer will ask the Representative to show him the end of season sale book or the lower priced items and will buy those and maybe one new suit or new item to at least be able to show it.

And so, that is what you the consumer now get to see on the shelves, in the displays and on the racks.

Even mail order houses are under pressure. Even if the buy a huge bulk of a particular brand's products, they still have to house it, store it, man it with staff, and pay for bloody shipping which can get expensive - and some offer free shipping. Yes, I understand they can purchase bulk freight charges and ship it all ground and what have you. But to do that, you better be moving huge amounts or the courier companies will not even give you the time of day.

It ain't easy for any of these guys. Staying in business and breaking even, let alone making profit takes creativity, and a whole shit load of hard work.

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post #19 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 05:31 PM
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I buy guns, golf stuff, and motorcycle stuff.

That's where my money goes. I buy guns from the little guy (he also carries reloading stuff).

Golf stuff from the local golf course- it costs more, but it's one stop shopping. Shoes, balls, whatever I need or want.

I try to buy motorcycle stuff from the local (regional) bike shop.

So I spend more, my selection is not as great, but I buy from people and places who know me and I like that.

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post #20 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 07:05 PM
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I walk into my dealer and every person there knows me, what bike I ride, what quad I ride, my buying habits, and what work I will do on my own. I like that, and since I know everyone there and have purchased two bikes and too many parts and gear, I can ride just about everything I want (even the owners '08 1000RR), get great deals on stuff, and get other perks. They also have pretty good selection, and will order everything. Sometimes it is cheaper for me to find something online and have them order it for me than do it for myself.

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post #21 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 08:15 PM
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I agree with treating a dealer right if they treat you right. I was at a racing school Saturday about 5 hours away, about midday my shifter broke, I was able to finish the school with the help of another racer running practice that day who had an old spare for his bike, with a little modification we made it work but it wasn't perfect. I called my wife and had her run up to our local dealership even though I knew they wouldn't have one in stock, being a good customer we were able to take the shifter off the bike on the showroom floor so I would have it for my race on sunday when I returned. you won't get that kind of service ordering everything online.

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post #22 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 08:27 PM
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Thanks for the perspective Aquila...

I'd be a lot more apt to spend money at my local shop if they expressed much interest in me. For whatever odd reason, it feels like pulling teeth to engage anyone there in a conversation...maybe it's my BO.... maybe I should go buy some better deoderant....

When I do talk to them, I don't really trust the info they give me, either. It feels like they are trying to gauge the thickness of my wallet rather than give me good information. that kind of thing tends to turn me off and want to take my business elsewhere.

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #23 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
Thanks for the perspective Aquila...

I'd be a lot more apt to spend money at my local shop if they expressed much interest in me. For whatever odd reason, it feels like pulling teeth to engage anyone there in a conversation...maybe it's my BO.... maybe I should go buy some better deoderant....

When I do talk to them, I don't really trust the info they give me, either. It feels like they are trying to gauge the thickness of my wallet rather than give me good information. that kind of thing tends to turn me off and want to take my business elsewhere.
Shadow - Your actually bring up a great point about dealers and what sets the good ones apart. In the name of saving money and making as much profit as possible, some dealers hire very inexperienced and disinterested staff. So, as in your case, a trip to the dealer is NOT a nice experience. This is also the fault of apparel / distributor reps. They are under pressure to make numbers and often times, they leave out the part of teaching the staff the unique features of the products they sell.

When I worked in the shop, our reps would tell us things from where the factories were located, to the type of material used, why it was used and even why some competitive brands features were superior or not. I am proud to say that in our shop, if you came in and said, "I would like that Yoshimura slip-on", our response was usually, "What kind of riding do you do and what are you trying to achieve?"

Dealers need to learn a new way of selling. You can just sell on price anymore or try to load everything onto that guy who seems to have a fat wallet... you now need to provide service to your customers - service includes educating the customer, and I mean educating, not lecturing. Assisting the customer to achieve their goals, not your desires. That kind of service is what brings customers in and brings them back. If you want to try this out, go visit a first class Ducati dealership.

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post #24 of 24 Old 04-19-2010, 09:29 PM
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In the big cities, where you have Cycle Gear and independent gear shops (like Moto Liberty here in Dallas) as well as the ever-present internet, I think the motorcycle dealerships would be smarter to get mostly out of the gear biz and focus on sales, parts (OEM and aftermarket), and service. If I was a dealer, I would only stock a few cheapo helmets and jackets as "throw-ins" when selling a bike to a new rider. Why tie up so much money in inventory that doesn't move? Doesn't make sense. I also think a lot of dealers are missing the boat by not carrying a wider variety of aftermarket "mod" stuff. Who doesn't mod their bike? And I'm not talking about crazy expensive stuff like full-blown titanium exhaust systems, but simple things like mirrors, grips, turn signals, shorty levers, windscreens, etc. I think it would generate a lot of impulse buys, too. Just my 2c.

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