Rear shock upgrade question - Wrist Twisters
View Poll Results: Best way to shock me?
Ohlins 23 60.53%
Penske 9 23.68%
WP, Matris, or Showa. 6 15.79%
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post #1 of 66 Old 11-29-2009, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Rear shock upgrade question

Ok, without getting into too muich details, since by the time I have everything squared away and ready to buy, other deals may be on the table.

So let's get to it.
The bike 04 1000RR, lately, its been 95% street, 5% track. Next year, I hope it will be more like 10% street, 90% track.
Rarely has a passenger, and won't once the shock is on. As you all know I have pretty much every bolt on there is for a half serious rider, EXCEPT suspension.

This is where the problem lies. Do I go with
A. Ohlins H0604 (46prxls)
B. Penske something
C. Another top brand that may not be easily serviced as the 1st two.

Cost aside, as I know how to find the deals. Which do you track and racer guys this I should go with and WHY.

If you're going to say, because this dude swears by em, or because you know Kent Ohlins, or Mr. Thermosman is the shiznit spare me. I'm looking for real answers.
Preferably from those that have tried both or have been in the same situation before and chose one over the other.

By other top brand I mean like... a Showa works shock, a WP shock, or a Matris shock.
I run in the intermediate group, bout mid pack right now. I don't think I'm aggressive with the gas, atleast my tire wear doesn suggest this. I do use rear brakes some, and I'm a bit heavy on engine braking.

Any help?

TIA

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

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post #2 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 07:14 AM
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I voted for the Penske. I have a double clicker on my ZX10 and I have done about 6 trackdays with her. I run near the front of the intermediate group (2-4 depending upon the group, rarely 1). With the Penske set for me and Lindeman rebuilt forks I don't have the ability to push my bike hard enough to find any limitations, whereas the stock suspension was limiting for me (aka, I might not have been finding limitations but the behavior of the stock suspension was not confidence inspiring, mostly front end chatter and spun up the rear much easier, like times in which I didn't expect it). So, I have been very happy with my Penske.

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post #3 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 07:57 AM
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If you haven't had the suspention done, you're not even a half serious rider.

I don't care what you've bolted on, you don't have siht until you have your suspention right. Get your suspention re-done, and ride it a while. You'll agree with me.

Talk to Mike at Dan Kyle Racing.

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post #4 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
If you haven't had the suspention done, you're not even a half serious rider.

I don't care what you've bolted on, you don't have siht until you have your suspention right. Get your suspention re-done, and ride it a while. You'll agree with me.

Talk to Mike at Dan Kyle Racing.
Crap! I'm less than half serious.


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post #5 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
If you haven't had the suspention done, you're not even a half serious rider.
Darn, I really thought all that racing was kinda serious

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post #6 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 10:06 AM
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Snik.....

Who do you have service your stuff now?? Do you deal with a trackside guy or a shop?

You really want to build a relationship with someone who's easily accessable. A good relationship with someone who KNOWS what their doing is just as valuable as the parts themselves, thats why you hear specific names being mentioned.

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post #7 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
If you haven't had the suspention done, you're not even a half serious rider.

I don't care what you've bolted on, you don't have siht until you have your suspention right. Get your suspention re-done, and ride it a while. You'll agree with me.

Talk to Mike at Dan Kyle Racing.
Awesome contribution thanks.

Quote:
Who do you have service your stuff now?? Do you deal with a trackside guy or a shop?

You really want to build a relationship with someone who's easily accessable. A good relationship with someone who KNOWS what their doing is just as valuable as the parts themselves, thats why you hear specific names being mentioned.
i used a local shop to refresh my forks earlier, since i havent done anything else, i really dont have a relationship as such, i pick LDH's brain all the time, but he swears by Ohlins and nothing else is good enough. I on the other hand am not really brand loyal with the suspension thing.

Adjustments and stuff on the stock items are done by myself and my buddy. For me the forks are awesome, feel planted 99% of the time, the rear sometimes makes me hesitant tho.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

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post #8 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
I voted for the Penske. I have a double clicker on my ZX10 and I have done about 6 trackdays with her. I run near the front of the intermediate group (2-4 depending upon the group, rarely 1). With the Penske set for me and Lindeman rebuilt forks I don't have the ability to push my bike hard enough to find any limitations, whereas the stock suspension was limiting for me (aka, I might not have been finding limitations but the behavior of the stock suspension was not confidence inspiring, mostly front end chatter and spun up the rear much easier, like times in which I didn't expect it). So, I have been very happy with my Penske.
see ive never had those issues, the only time the front bothers me was when i had redone the forks, and sag was off and the my geometry was altered, thats all changed since.

its the rear feeling like its not as connected as the front sometimes that bugs me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #9 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 02:25 PM
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If price is not an issue I would go with Ohlins.

Honda owns Showa and their GP team went with Ohlins.

Ohlins looks to be the most popular aftermarket brand in the WERA and Nesba paddocks, so there should be plenty of data available as far as settings, springs, valves....etc..etc..

and I like Mike

Thermosman and LDH

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post #10 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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a part of me soo wants to go against the common trend tho.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

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post #11 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 06:10 PM
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You want a shock?

I'm NOTUJM

Perfect rebound while the spring is somewhat tightly wound -

That's a really good shock

Almost electrifying, you know what I mean?

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post #12 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 07:12 PM
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Remember how that knee bone is connected to the thigh bone is connected to ........ on and on ?
Rear Shock.
Penske or Ohlins it matters not. If you can get more and better help from someone who sells or uses one more so than the other, that's the way to decide IMO. I do think you get better value in a Penkse if you are looking at a 2 way instead of 3 way, but you will surely be looking at a 3 way.
BUT it's not so simple, because the spring collar is connected to the shock is connected to... on and on.
Make sure you're rear spring is the correct rate for track day solo riding at your level of skill (and tires you will be using).
Run 10 -11 mm of Free Sag, then lengthen the shock to get the Rider Sag where you want it (I had to add 6 mm of shock length to my 1100 # / inch sprung Penkse for my 919 Naked Honda)
I know nothing about 1000 RRs. How good are the front Compression and Rebound Valves? How well to ideal for you is it sprung ? Maybe it would be wise to redo the front totally, so it is at the same level of finesse as the rear you want to put on. LordDH @ Kyle will take good care of you, ask him.

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post #13 of 66 Old 11-30-2009, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Remember how that knee bone is connected to the thigh bone is connected to ........ on and on ?
Rear Shock.
Penske or Ohlins it matters not. If you can get more and better help from someone who sells or uses one more so than the other, that's the way to decide IMO. I do think you get better value in a Penkse if you are looking at a 2 way instead of 3 way, but you will surely be looking at a 3 way.
BUT it's not so simple, because the spring collar is connected to the shock is connected to... on and on.
Make sure you're rear spring is the correct rate for track day solo riding at your level of skill (and tires you will be using).
Run 10 -11 mm of Free Sag, then lengthen the shock to get the Rider Sag where you want it (I had to add 6 mm of shock length to my 1100 # / inch sprung Penkse for my 919 Naked Honda)
I know nothing about 1000 RRs. How good are the front Compression and Rebound Valves? How well to ideal for you is it sprung ? Maybe it would be wise to redo the front totally, so it is at the same level of finesse as the rear you want to put on. LordDH @ Kyle will take good care of you, ask him.
Stock RR fork springs are about 20lbs off my weight. For my ass, the adjustments still do the trick and are still responsive enough. So to me, they're still good enough.
I'm not talking suspension mods cause I like the bling, well I do, but the reason I'm seeking a rear shock is because I feel its holding me back at this point. With it being sprung for 2 up vs my skinny ass. Shock 1st, then when the front becomes the problem, then I'll do that.
So I'm not gonna buy a shock and not have it sprung for my weight, that's half the problem I have now, so whatever I get will be set for my featherweight self.

I'm not concerned with the tuning, I'm pretty confident once I have the shock, myself and my track partner can set it up, we've tweaked our stock suspension several times over after servicing and tire changes and I've experimented with geometry changes a lil bit.

I wouldn't mind Ohlins, don't get me wrong, but a part of me really wants to try something that isn't so popular. Simply just to be different from the crowd.

If I was to put them in order of desire it would be

Ohlins, Matris, Penske 3 way, Showa, WP

The ones I'm looking at all have the same features essentially. High andlow speed compression, rebound adjustment, height adjustable, hydraulic and mechanical preload adjustment.
But some have a remote res units, some have a piggyback. What I don't want for sure, is a remote setup.
Altho mike has a solution to that, I think the piggyback units are way cleaner.

Buy my Pirelli supercorsa takeoffs. sizes 120/180
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #14 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 08:00 AM
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Remotes look cleaner but have less oil volume.
This is what the chassis whiz told me that I got my custom build Penske from for my GSX-R750.
So my 750 has a remote on it.
You might want to consider that too.

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post #15 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Remotes look cleaner but have less oil volume.
This is what the chassis whiz told me that I got my custom build Penske from for my GSX-R750.
So my 750 has a remote on it.
You might want to consider that too.
thats HIS opinion, on my bike, i dont want one.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #16 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snikwad View Post
I wouldn't mind Ohlins, don't get me wrong, but a part of me really wants to try something that isn't so popular. Simply just to be different from the crowd.

.
The above should not be a part of the equation.

There's a reason LDH swears by Ohlins.

I've run Ohlins and Penske on different bikes so it's not a fair comparison.

"they" say Penske has a larger sweet spot but in order to achieve that gives up the ultimate in dialed in performace to Ohlins.

You're not gonna get "screwed" by going either route.

Tarheel makes a huge point, trackside support is key the faster you run, well getting dialed in is most important the faster you run and trackside support is what gets you there.

Forget the "me and my buddy" thing once you start getting any real speed, listen to the 'wise ones' who've been doing it a while and build your knowledgebase. It only takes wicking it up in one corner to get out of shape and that can come from damn near anything, body position, damper or shock being off, tire pressure...all that stuff matters more and more the faster you go.

If you always ride within yourself, fine.
If you ride within your abilities most of the time but every once in a while, chase that faster bike trying to get faster, you'll find a limit, yourself mostly. Don't let setup be the factor that hoses you.

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post #17 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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and my buddy thing was more directed at the questions about if i know how to setup my trash.
while i welcome any help, on my stock stuff, we've always found a solution, thats why i mentioned that.

Im really beginning to lean towards the gold stuff. Though, denying the vendor and trackside support factor wouldnt be smart.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #18 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 09:34 PM
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I screwed up re the remotes in terms of oil volume.
Remote reservoirs have more oil volume than piggy backs.
Anyway, I think most people select for tidiness hence more piggybacks than remotes if a piggy back is available for one's bike.

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post #19 of 66 Old 12-01-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
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Don't let setup be the factor that hoses you.
Excellent point.
The idea is maximize the gap between bike limit and rider limit.
As in rider limit being the limiting factor.
Assuming one rides sanely on the track, the lesser the chance of an unintended incident that requires a price to be paid for the error.

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post #20 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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If I go with Ohlins and send it to LDH, I won't have a setup issue. I'll just put it on and ride. I'm pretty confident of that. The others I may not be so fortunate, I'd prolly have to tweak a few things here and there.

So Ohlins it is, unless I get an offer I absolutely cannot refuse.

In the mean time, lemme lock down these BBS shoes for the cage and then I can work on this.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #21 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 03:22 AM
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Where is this crowd of Ohlins, that you have to stand out from? If you're worried about what the "crowd" is doing, re-read my first post.

An Ohlins will ruin you. Crappy suspention will never be good enough again.

You'll never know better until you've had better. C`mon Snik, cross over to our side.

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post #22 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 03:59 AM
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BTW, I don't consider myself a serious rider. I'm not fast. I don't race. I don't do lap times. I'm about having fun. A nice riding bike is a lot more fun.

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post #23 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Where is this crowd of Ohlins, that you have to stand out from? If you're worried about what the "crowd" is doing, re-read my first post.

An Ohlins will ruin you. Crappy suspention will never be good enough again.

You'll never know better until you've had better. C`mon Snik, cross over to our side.
dude, be quiet.

Quote:
BTW, I don't consider myself a serious rider. I'm not fast. I don't race. I don't do lap times. I'm about having fun. A nice riding bike is a lot more fun.
...and with that said who are you to sit there and say im not a half serious rider? atleast im trying, what do you do, ride to starbucks and back, and talk about how good ohlins is and how it really transformed your bike?

Right now your ohlins is just pure bling, as youre not putting it to any kind of use. You havent a clue what your precious ohlins can really do, so essentially youre riding a band wagon, and repeating what youve been told.
Go do some laps and chop times, and then maybe i'll take you seriously.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #24 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 07:03 AM
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Hey Snik, Sniper just got a little excited with his new bike and what he has heard. Hey Sniper, Snik's response, although strong, doesn't require a response that will lead to a string of ugliness.

Just a thought, guys!

By the way, Snik, if you do change your mind, LE Suspension can set you up perfectly with a Penske like Dan Kyle can set you up perfectly with Ohlins. So, you are safe either way.

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post #25 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 11:25 AM
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I got my Penkse for my 919 from LE.
I got my front end kit from Race Tech (valve kits, springs, wear parts and oil).
Traxxion is another good source, for both Front and Rear needs.
I've heard that at least some of the Traxxion front end parts are better than Race Tech, anodized aluminum instead of brass or some such thing. Anyway, the valving set up and correct springing is the critical issue, and both are good in that regard.

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post #26 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, but if I deal with anyone on the left coast its gonna be Mike @ DK.
For east coast I have thermosman, ohlins, and traxxion at my disposal.
I've long heard great things about LE but if I go that coast its got to be LDH

As for sniper his responses, particularly the 1st one really rubbed me the wrong way.
Plus his KTM comes with WP suspension on it. So yeah. Lol

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #27 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 09:06 PM
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Please let us all know what you end up getting and how you find it.

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post #28 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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No doubt. It will be put in my bike thread as soon as I order, receive and install.

Believe me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #29 of 66 Old 12-02-2009, 09:45 PM
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Choices

I bought a used Ohlins. Man-O-Man. NOW I don't have to dodge every bump in the road. I haven't tested it out on a big sweeper that about threw me down with the stock rear going 70, which I was able to knife through on a pitful SV650 at 90 with no problems (it had an upgraded rear shock by RICOR), but it is SO MUCH NICER!

I think almost any shock would be an improvement over the stock butt-kicker.

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post #30 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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That's the kind of stuff I need from it, smoothing out the bumpy stuff so I don't have to let off the gas.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #31 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 08:18 AM
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Ohlins

If I get RICOR to build a prototype for me that works on the CB as well as it's been working on other bikes they've built for, I'll be selling the Ohlins. In the meantime, the improvement in ride quality is so obvious, I hate to tweak the current Ohlins settings. It's just as well, I'm not healed up sufficiently to be pushing it through corners. I'm just enjoying the fact that I can ride without having the sharp bumps resulting in stabbing pains in my back. I simply wasn't yet well enough to be able to tolerate the stock shock.

Oh, one other shock guy I know, Rick at Cogent Dynamics in North Carolina. I don't know how much (if anything) he knows about the CB, but, the bikes he does know, he makes custom shocks for them....if he doesn't know the CB, he might be able to give you some unbiased opinions on what other shocks he'd look at.

I think it's going to be hard to beat the Ohlins...but, I don't know that for sure....just an uneducated guess at this point.

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post #32 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 10:52 AM
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That was my Ohlins that Blackie is talking about. Gald you like it. You're a smart man. I sold it to him for about what I paid for it. I had that luxurious Ohlins ride quality for several years, didn't cost me anything. He will too, if he ever sells his bike. I have no clue why everybody and their brother doesn't have one on a 919.

You'll never know better until you ride better. That shock is going to be working for him, and paying him back every inch of every ride. Best money you can spend on a 919. I had a guy at Putnam dial it in for me at the last track day I did.

On the front, I have 5 lines showing on the preload, the rebound screw is 1 1/4 turns out from full stiff. (turn all the way to the right until it stops, then go left 1 1/4 turns) The front is not bad. I've ridden a couple of 02 and 03 919s. I thought my 04s front end felt better.

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post #33 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 10:59 AM
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I've ridden on just about every brand of suspension you can think of. HyperPro, Elka, WP, Matris, Paoli, Sachs even some unobtanium Factory Superbike stuff.

The beauty of Ohlins in general is that you don't need a track side technician to set it up. The work has already been done for you. Especially on the 1000RR as I have ridden every single model of Ohlins shock that has been made for that bike and know it like the back of my hand.

HO347
HO442
HO515 (My favorite)
HO604 (currently the only one still available for the 04-07 model)
HO606 (limited run TTX edition)

I've also ridden on a couple Penske's for the 1000RR and they were equally as good for all practical intents & purposes at normal A-Group pace although I don't know the effort that went into setting them up, but I do know it was more than just bolting it on, setting the sag & going riding...

The Ohlins holds it's value longer too and in some cases have been known to appreciate in value.

If you just want to be different then there are lots of choices, but getting customer support, service and even baseline settings can be difficult with lesser brands. There is a reason why the majority of riders prefer Ohlins. The real issue is you rarely get someone to be objective about their purchase. Just like when a rider buys a $100 K&N air filter only to find out it actually causes a loss of performance he isn't willing to tell anyone he made a mistake instead he will offer something to the effect of "well I am saving money because it is re-usable". The same holds true with suspension if a rider buys a lesser shock their claim becomes "well for the price it was worth it". Riding a sportbike proficiently is all about confidence. Knowing that you have the best possible suspension underneath of you is more important than actually having it. None of us are going to push the bike to the limit that such suspension prowess becomes a true factor. Don't get me wrong the more compliant the suspension is the better your chances are of the bike correcting itself and keeping you on two wheels when you make a mistake, but by far & large it is the mental aspect of the sport that makes or breaks riders.

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post #34 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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true, and that confidence in the rear is what im looking for. which is why im going for the shock 1st as my front end feels pretty planted.
thanks again for chiming in Mike, the gold stuff it is, plus it will match my wimz.

quick question, why is the H0515 your favourite.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrimmon View Post
...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #35 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snikwad View Post
quick question, why is the H0515 your favourite.
It's just got the best valving of the lot which gives me an unbelievable amount of feel & feedback from the bike at any pace I choose to ride it. The HO515 is the shock I decided to keep after testing all of them. Unfortunately for me I ended up putting it on my wife's 06 1000RR sprung for her and I am running the HO606 on my 04

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post #36 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
It's just got the best valving of the lot which gives me an unbelievable amount of feel & feedback from the bike at any pace I choose to ride it. The HO515 is the shock I decided to keep after testing all of them. Unfortunately for me I ended up putting it on my wife's 06 1000RR sprung for her and I am running the HO606 on my 04
so do you still think i should get the 604? or go for a 515?
does the 515 have high and low speed adjustments like a 604

Buy my Pirelli supercorsa takeoffs. sizes 120/180
Quote:
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...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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post #37 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 02:43 PM
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Most riders will NEVER notice the difference between the 604 & the 515. I do because I spent months testing them all back to back with hard data at the racetrack.

I can get you an HO515, but it will be about $20 higher than I can sell you the HO604

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post #38 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 07:40 PM
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To LDH
A bit off topic, but do you know off the top of your head what the 919 rear spring rate is on the early and later shocks? I know the early ones were stiffer but a fair bit. I can't find numbers anywhere.
Figured you'd know.
By the way, I got my Yosh TRS'd 919 dyno'd and went in with your Mori V4 map as the baseline.
Afterwards, the tuner, demanded to know how I got such a good map and when I told him he was blown away that such good work was floating about on the web !

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post #39 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
To LDH
A bit off topic, but do you know off the top of your head what the 919 rear spring rate is on the early and later shocks? I know the early ones were stiffer but a fair bit. I can't find numbers anywhere.
Figured you'd know.
By the way, I got my Yosh TRS'd 919 dyno'd and went in with your Mori V4 map as the baseline.
Afterwards, the tuner, demanded to know how I got such a good map and when I told him he was blown away that such good work was floating about on the web !
Since you brought up your dyno runs, you ARE going to post the results, right????

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post #40 of 66 Old 12-03-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quality shocks

I think shocks and paint jobs are similar in this respect: There is no such thing as a "Bargain", if it's not of a high quality.

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