How do MotoGP 800s make 200+ HP? - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 08-23-2011, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
mambomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 538
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 1

Question How do MotoGP 800s make 200+ HP?

I know a little, and I mean just a little, about motors. Having said that I wonder what the MotoGP teams are doing with 800cc normally aspirated engines to get over 200 HP. They are 4-cylinder (some V-4 and some inline) engines with fuel injection. No turbos or superchargers. How on earth do they get 200+ HP? 32 to 1 compression? I know it's all top secret whatever, but it seems to defy the laws of physics.

mambomonster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
blur
 
drewvir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deptford,NJ
Posts: 1,372
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

computer management,near perfect cylinder heads,variable cam timing,high compression(probably 12-13:1)BTW the Honda rc212v is a v-5.

remember the bmw s1000r and the zx-10r are making 190 hp in a street bike. an 800 with a unlimited budget 200+ isn't that far off

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
drewvir is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 08-23-2011, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
mambomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 538
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 1

Yeah I guess it's reasonable with unlimited budgets and perfect parts as you say. FYI, the current factory 800cc Honda is a V4. You're thinking about the 990cc V5 they ran before the displacement rules were changed to 800cc a few years back. Next year they're going to 1000cc and apparently one of the main concerns is fuel consumption. The 2012 bikes are being tested but I don't know if they have divulged configurations yet.

mambomonster is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 01:17 AM
jrj
Optio
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 806
Rep Power: 1
 
High RPM's. Like, astronomical.

jrj is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 02:29 AM
Cornicen
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 516
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 
perfect castings, ported and polished to mirror surfaces, superlight internal components that only need to last one or two races then it all gets chucked and rebuilt.

honda ng gingsa is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 03:22 AM
Tirone
 
bls69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: az
Posts: 79
Rep Power: 1
 
The motors are super efficient.

bls69 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 04:04 AM
blur
 
drewvir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deptford,NJ
Posts: 1,372
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj View Post
High RPM's. Like, astronomical.
not really max rpm is 17500.2011 zx-10 redline is 14500

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
drewvir is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 05:32 AM
Tesserarius
 
Stutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Macon, ga
Posts: 717
Rep Power: 1
 
I hear that the 800's are racing at 230-240 hp.

Back when they went to 990's a honda guy said they could
make 300 hp but did not have enough fuel to race at that level.

The intake system is very efficient. It can actually fill the
cylinder 120% of its displacement.

5 hp per ci in a n/a motor has been around for a while.
30 years ago honda had a 4 stroke racing at 4.25 hp per cu in.
Stutz is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 10:36 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by honda ng gingsa View Post
perfect castings, ported and polished to mirror surfaces, superlight internal components that only need to last one or two races then it all gets chucked and rebuilt.

MotoGP does not allow that. They only get 6 motors to use the entire season and if they go over that allotment then they are penalized. That is why the riders immediately run to the bikes now if they crash and either stand them up to get the oil pump working again or hit the kill switch to save the motor.

You will also notice that they no longer do burn-outs after a win etc as they are conserving the longevity of the engine.

LDH is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 10:47 AM
Le So Cal Troll
 
nd4spdbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,766
Rep Power: 1
 
like stated... rpms... these motors are high strung, make nothing untill way high in the rpms... that and unlimited budget on design and build of the motors can produce a motor thats VERY good at what it does. just look at F1 race cars... 2.4L v8 .. 800+ hp.

nd4spdbh is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
mambomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 538
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stutz View Post
The intake system is very efficient. It can actually fill the cylinder 120% of its displacement.
Seems impossible - details please.

mambomonster is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right Here
Posts: 1,331
Rep Power: 1
 
Not impossible. The incoming air fuel charge can continue to fill the cylinder even after the piston begins moving upward due to the inertia of the incoming air. The air rushing in can't stop instantly & the intake valve remains open a fair amount after BDC. Near BDC & TDC also keep in mind the piston is moving very slow so it has little to overcome. The valves overlap at TDC between exhaust & intake--both intake & exhauist valves are open at the same time so the inertia of the exhaust rushing from the cylinder can pull in fresh air/fuel charge right up through the intake tract even before the piston reaches TDC--again because the piston is moving very slow here. SInce the intake flow is "on" before the intake strroke has even begun, little is wasted getting the air stream up to speed when the exhaust valve finally closes.

In addition to all of this tune your exhaust & airbox correctly & you can "pulse" more air fuel charge in also. Tune your exhaust to create a negative pressure pulse that reaches the combustion chamber at some desireable RPM just as the valves overlap as mentioned above---free supercharging.

Bryce919er is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 11:34 AM
Immune
 
bocomomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 312
Rep Power: 1
 
It's possible to acheive over 100% volumetric efficiency if you can get the charge of air coming through the intake to actually push the air infront of it into the cylinder. Same sort of effect can be used to help the exhaust scavenge. This is why the smaller diameter intakes on the 919 give it more torque down low. The velocities in our intakes are higher *at low rpm's* (the smaller intakes also choke the engine off at higher rpms)

I suspect the biggest reason the Moto GP bikes can make so much HP is that it does not need to be "streetable" The entire air and fuel delivery system is designed/tuned to give maximum HP and it's part of the riders job to keep the system happy (operate it in the appropriate RPM range)

bocomomark is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 11:43 AM
Le So Cal Troll
 
nd4spdbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,766
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
Not impossible. The incoming air fuel charge can continue to fill the cylinder even after the piston begins moving upward due to the inertia of the incoming air. The air rushing in can't stop instantly & the intake valve remains open a fair amount after BDC. Near BDC & TDC also keep in mind the piston is moving very slow so it has little to overcome. The valves overlap at TDC between exhaust & intake--both intake & exhauist valves are open at the same time so the inertia of the exhaust rushing from the cylinder can pull in fresh air/fuel charge right up through the intake tract even before the piston reaches TDC--again because the piston is moving very slow here. SInce the intake flow is "on" before the intake strroke has even begun, little is wasted getting the air stream up to speed when the exhaust valve finally closes.

In addition to all of this tune your exhaust & airbox correctly & you can "pulse" more air fuel charge in also. Tune your exhaust to create a negative pressure pulse that reaches the combustion chamber at some desireable RPM just as the valves overlap as mentioned above---free supercharging.
yup.... exactly like an expansion chamber on a two stroke. theres so much science behind making a motor super efficient, and damn they have the money to do it.

nd4spdbh is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 08-24-2011, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
mambomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 538
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 1

Interesting. What cooling tricks are used?

mambomonster is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome