Downshifting while braking with the front - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Downshifting while braking with the front

I've been practicing this on pretty much every ride, and I get it maybe once out of 20 times it seems like. I always end up letting off the brake when I blip the throttle and pogo-ing the front end slightly. Any tips on doing this properly?

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post #2 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 01:39 PM
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More practice. Same as heel-toe in a cage.

How many fingers on grip, and how many on he lever?

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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I've been using two on the lever, pointer and middle, with my thumb and other two fingers on the grip blipping.

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post #4 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 01:55 PM
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do you find it useful blipping your throttle? Try without that part, and pay more attention to/feel the friction zone.

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post #5 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
do you find it useful blipping your throttle? Try without that part, and pay more attention to/feel the friction zone.
yeah without the blip it's not problem, but I thought it was a lot better on the clutch and engine to blip the throttle.

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post #6 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:00 PM
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Pay attention to your speed as well, to high of a speed with too low of a gear will reve your engine high and will cause the front end to drive and maybe even do the pogo effect your are talking about.

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post #7 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
yeah without the blip it's not problem, but I thought it was a lot better on the clutch and engine to blip the throttle.
forget about damaging your clutch, it will take waaay more than that to do any kind of damage to it. Just ride your bike and do what feels natural.

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post #8 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:17 PM
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I think it's better to blip the throttle while downshifting. If you'll be on a big V2 bike without a slipper clutch, you'll lose grip on downshifts.
I manage to do that on the niner in the wet, when i miss a downshift above 5k

Practice until it's second nature

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post #9 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incult View Post
I think it's better to blip the throttle while downshifting. If you'll be on a big V2 bike without a slipper clutch, you'll lose grip on downshifts.
I manage to do that on the niner in the wet, when i miss a downshift above 5k

Practice until it's second nature
nothing wrong with a little rear wheel hop on downshifting. The key is to do all hard breaking early, before you get to the corner this way all you have to do through the corner is a smooth transition into the throttle.
It's very hard to give the advice except practice practice and ride within your abilities, especially if you ride on the street

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post #10 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 02:50 PM
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Goodness ... it's been so long since I had to think about doing it I had to take the bike out and actually watch while downshifting to be able to describe it.

Here goes:
1 -- First, and probably most difficult to master, is you should not try to hold your upper body's weight with pressure on the bars while braking. I know, it sounds impossible, but is actually quite easy to do with practice. Why? If you have a lot of weight on your arms the muscles are working to push back, and this involves the muscles in your forearm that connect to the fingers. As they are already loaded it is hard to make fine motions such as applying the brakes and blipping the throttle accurately and you end up with motion for the two actions interrelating resulting in the pogo effect. Annoying when lightly braking, but a disaster when under heavy braking. To practice this simply find a deserted piece of asphalt such as a church parking lot on any day but Sunday and practice lightly braking with only your right hand on the bars and your upper body supported by your abdominal muscles. Hold most of your weight with your feet and legs, and plant yourself against the tank. Once you can lightly brake one handed without inducing a steering input increase the speed a little and start braking harder a little bit at a time. Eventually you will be able to howl the front tire one handed. Needless to say sneak up on this! A side effect of this is you will find much less drama when steering while braking. Once you have mastered this move on to #2.

2 -- Practice separating the braking fingers (usually using the index and middle fingers only) from the rest of your hand on the throttle. Remember it takes only a small amount of throttle rotation to match revs while downshifting, usually less than 1/6th turn if that much. With only the Distal Phalanges (tips of the fingers) actually doing the braking the intermediate and Proximal Phalanges (second and third bones in order from the tips) have free motion to flex while turning the throttle. It is this flex that allows the throttle to be turned while maintaining an even pressure, or varying pressure if necessary, on the brake lever. I find that the best way to practice this is with the bike running in neutral and on the stand: apply the brake and blip the throttle while concentrating on watching the fingers on the brake. If they impart an unplanned motion to the lever release the brake, back out of the throttle, and start again. Eventually your instincts will be ingrained sufficiently to make a practice excursion and put it all together.

That's it. Once the basic motion instincts have been learned all that is needed is to ride a lot and let your brain refine it's knowledge -- instincts are much quicker to refine than to establish, and it's mostly subconscious -- all you will notice is things are going much smoother than before.

Rob

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post #11 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeeDeeGee View Post
I've been practicing this on pretty much every ride, and I get it maybe once out of 20 times it seems like. I always end up letting off the brake when I blip the throttle and pogo-ing the front end slightly. Any tips on doing this properly?
# 1 is training your brain so that the braking component is prime and downshifting is secondary.
The reason you are releasing is because on a conscious and/or subconscious level, your brain has made the downshifting the prime activity.
Once you have the braking aspect pegged, as in being to maintain maximum braking force while still being able to do an additional activity at some level of skill, then move to focusing on the downshifting technique.
Also.
Many riders start downshifting too soon, let that begin a bit later, the giveaway is your tacho hitting high RPMs when you release the clutch lever.
Hitting beyond 9000 RPMs is too much, that is for sure.
Also try slowing down your clutch lever release, it will act as a sort of slipper clutch, and generally soften the re-engagement. This helps if you are bit rough on the throttle blipping.
Careful use of the clutch lever can really soften things up for you.

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post #12 of 12 Old 03-25-2012, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, awesome feedback as always.

"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
-2005 CBR 600 F4i
-2001 RC51 ** SOLD
-2002 VFR 800**SOLD
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