Casey Stoner - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 10-02-2013, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
Left of Centre
 
K1w1Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 3,500
Rep Power: 1
 
Casey Stoner

Some uncharitable remarks here from another Aussie. Seems a bit sour grapes - Casey had what it takes, in my view.

Casey Stoner not a MotoGP icon: Beattie

K1w1Boy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 08:00 AM
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

The article was not uncharitable imo. Only thing remotely negative he said about Stoner was that he quit too soon & that is the truth. I would have loved to seem him this year battle it with JLo & Marquez.


I disagree though when he states that Rossi cannot win another championship. You never know what is going on in that guy's mind.

arshishb is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 01:14 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Rossi has been done for awhile now. It is his popularity that lives on...

Ultimately Rossi's undeniable popularity came from his antics... Here was a young kid flailing around in a gold cape that made him a crowd favorite in a grid full of soon to be retirees. Of course people wanted to root for the new young guy and he looked like a god out there without any real competition in the ranks, but as soon as they took away his special Michelin tires flown in for him on the day of the race with the spec tire rule he was mortal like every other rider on the grid. Once enough factory seats were vacated by the old guard and new talent like Stoner and Jorge could fill them Rossi was just another racer on the grid and his results prove it.

In the last 4 seasons Rossi has had 3 wins and 1 pole position. 2 of those 4 years he was on the YAMAHA so you cannot blame the Ducati.

Having said that in comparison Casey Stoner in his worst year ever (JUST ONE YEAR) riding the Ducati did more than Rossi has managed to do in 4 years...

LDH is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
Left of Centre
 
K1w1Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 3,500
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arshishb View Post
The article was not uncharitable imo. Only thing remotely negative he said about Stoner was that he quit too soon....
"He said MotoGP would not miss Stoner, whose two titles do not stand out in the overall history of the sport.."

How many WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP titles does a guy have to win?

K1w1Boy is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 02:34 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
"He said MotoGP would not miss Stoner, whose two titles do not stand out in the overall history of the sport.."

How many WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP titles does a guy have to win?

I personally tend to think 2 is enough LOL especially when you have 10 wins per season to get you there!

Much better than being some paper champion with only 2 wins all season and still winning the world championship That's how club racers do it not world level riders...

LDH is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 02:34 PM
When in doubt.....GAS IT!
 
hasbeenracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SO.CAL
Posts: 2,528
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Rossi has been done for awhile now. It is his popularity that lives on...

Ultimately Rossi's undeniable popularity came from his antics... Here was a young kid flailing around in a gold cape that made him a crowd favorite in a grid full of soon to be retirees. Of course people wanted to root for the new young guy and he looked like a god out there without any real competition in the ranks, but as soon as they took away his special Michelin tires flown in for him on the day of the race with the spec tire rule he was mortal like every other rider on the grid. Once enough factory seats were vacated by the old guard and new talent like Stoner and Jorge could fill them Rossi was just another racer on the grid and his results prove it.

In the last 4 seasons Rossi has had 3 wins and 1 pole position. 2 of those 4 years he was on the YAMAHA so you cannot blame the Ducati.

Having said that in comparison Casey Stoner in his worst year ever (JUST ONE YEAR) riding the Ducati did more than Rossi has managed to do in 4 years...
Oh yeah? Well what do you know.....

I love Rossi, but I think you hit the nail on the head Michael.

Professional
hasbeenracer is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 04:11 PM
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
"He said MotoGP would not miss Stoner, whose two titles do not stand out in the overall history of the sport.."

How many WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP titles does a guy have to win?
Ah I seemed to have overlooked that sentence when I read that article. Agree with you there.

Quote:

Rossi has been done for awhile now. It is his popularity that lives on...
Agree here as well however I have some hope he will do good before he bows out; may be not a championship but at least he can give some of the top folks a hard time

Call it what you may, but he was instrumental to the popularity of our sport & I would hate to see him go out defeated/forgotten.

arshishb is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 10-03-2013, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
Left of Centre
 
K1w1Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 3,500
Rep Power: 1
 
K1w1Boy is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 10-04-2013, 04:47 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
I love Rossi.
Always will.
One of the best ever.
Tires are no explanation for his mastery of the 500s.
Is he what he once was ?
No, but then I remember a saying from many a year ago: "I'm as good once as I used to be good".
Marquez is the real deal.
So is Lorenzo.
Pedrosa isn't, never was in the top class, and never will be.
Stoner was, surely could be again, but won't. CS is really StM, as in Stoner the Moaner.
He's like a sour grapes Eddy Lawson but instead of hanging around longer and still whipping butt, simply walked away.
Having said that, I respect Stoner for what he did, and if it means his family life is better and he has fun in the cars, then hey, who's the smartest one ?

mcromo44 is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 10-04-2013, 05:00 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Mastery of the 500's? Really? LOL

He was competing against an entire grid of guys 10 years older than him brought up in a different era of racing and doing so at a time when it was well documented that the factory bosses could decide who had the right parts installed on their bike or the right tires to contend for a win or a title. Do not misconstrue Rossi is a fantastic rider and even better showman, but he was always lucky enough to be on the best bike with the best tires along with the best team and those things worked in his favor exponentially. When the playing field was leveled with spec tires and more competitively fielded bikes both in terms of performance & riders his days of coming back from a ride thru penalty to win the race were long since over.

If Mick Doohan had continued his career at the same time Rossi entered the ranks of the 500's I bet Rossi's slate would look a whole lot different right now.

LDH is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 10-04-2013, 06:00 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
If anyone deserves scrutiny at present, I think it's Pedrosa.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 10:44 AM
The Instigator
 
Ditch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,198
Rep Power: 1
 
I watched Rossi and at the time thought he was a God but now that I've had so many years to reflect, his biggest rivals like Gibernau and Biaggis were not even in the same league as who he's racing againt now.

Lets not forget the advantage of having Burgess in his corner but, hearing things like having special tires flown in and plenty we probably don't know has really tarnished my opinion of him.

One thing that should not be overlooked though was his move to Yamaha and winning just as much as he did on the Honda afterwards. That, to me is simply amazing and couldn't be done by too many others, if any.

Ditch is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Tesserarius
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Mastery of the 500's? Really? LOL

He was competing against an entire grid of guys 10 years older than him brought up in a different era of racing and doing so at a time when it was well documented that the factory bosses could decide who had the right parts installed on their bike or the right tires to contend for a win or a title. Do not misconstrue Rossi is a fantastic rider and even better showman, but he was always lucky enough to be on the best bike with the best tires along with the best team and those things worked in his favor exponentially. When the playing field was leveled with spec tires and more competitively fielded bikes both in terms of performance & riders his days of coming back from a ride thru penalty to win the race were long since over.

If Mick Doohan had continued his career at the same time Rossi entered the ranks of the 500's I bet Rossi's slate would look a whole lot different right now.
2008 & 2009 were years of Bridgestone spec tires & he won the championship in both years. 2010 he was the points leader till he broke his leg in Assen, since then he has been in a downward spiral. So I am not sure what you mean about him getting the best tires & what not. Pretty much all the top level guys have some sort of preference which their teams are willing to accommodate, Rossi included.

arshishb is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 11:12 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditch View Post

One thing that should not be overlooked though was his move to Yamaha and winning just as much as he did on the Honda afterwards. That, to me is simply amazing and couldn't be done by too many others, if any.

Except for 2 things:

1. Yamaha gave Burgess a blank check to redesign the M1 and he did... basically turning it into an RCV Plus lets face it when you only have to beat Gibernau, Barros, Edwards and Checa let alone the rest of the grid like Hoffman, Xaus and Hopkins well...

2. Rossi went to Ducati and actually performed at a lower level than not only his competitors, but his teammate as well.

LDH is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 11:22 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by arshishb View Post
2008 & 2009 were years of Bridgestone spec tires & he won the championship in both years. 2010 he was the points leader till he broke his leg in Assen, since then he has been in a downward spiral. So I am not sure what you mean about him getting the best tires & what not. Pretty much all the top level guys have some sort of preference which their teams are willing to accommodate, Rossi included.


Actually 2009 is when the spec tire rule took over with Bridgestone. The couple years leading up to that is when the rules changed and they stopped allowing Michelin to make tires on Saturday and fly them in on Sunday for the race. Because he could not get his special tires Rossi lobbied for the Spec Tire rule as his struggles were immense against the Bridgestone shod riders. At any rate the Bridgestone tires were not as good overall against the special built Michelin's, but they worked in a much broader range of conditions. When Michelin could no longer make tires specific to each event they many times guessed wrong on which tires to bring to the track and Bridgestone riders easily moved ahead over the Michelin riders.

LDH is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 11:25 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Except for 2 things:

1. Yamaha gave Burgess a blank check to redesign the M1 and he did... basically turning it into an RCV Plus lets face it when you only have to beat Gibernau, Barros, Edwards and Checa let alone the rest of the grid like Hoffman, Xaus and Hopkins well...

2. Rossi went to Ducati and actually performed at a lower level than not only his competitors, but his teammate as well.
The M1 was not much redeveloped in the first race that Rossi rode it M1 and he won on it, something that everyone at the time said was not possible, while also revealing much about Max and the previous crew and approach to chassis tuning.
If anything, JB dumbed down the chassis.
Rossi was a key input, good development rider.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 01:48 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
The M1 was not much redeveloped in the first race that Rossi rode it M1 and he won on it, something that everyone at the time said was not possible, while also revealing much about Max and the previous crew and approach to chassis tuning.
If anything, JB dumbed down the chassis.
Rossi was a key input, good development rider.
Funny, I seem to recall Ducati throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the bikes under Rossi's direction including the alloy frame he said it required and it made the problem worse. Maybe he is not quite the development rider others have claimed. If anything I would like to think Burgess who has been the crew chief of many world champions is more in a position to be praised than anyone else. Don't fool yourself the Yamaha Rossi rode was virtually indistinguishable with the same clothes on, but far removed under them from the previous seasons M1.


I used to think Max was a whiner, but when the facts came to light after his exit from MotoGP, he was telling the truth all along about how the engineers refused to make changes or how factory bosses would withhold special race parts and of course the tire issues. Don't forget that Max is a 4 time world 250 champion and has 2 WSBK championship titles too.

LDH is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 02:37 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Funny, I seem to recall Ducati throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the bikes under Rossi's direction including the alloy frame he said it required and it made the problem worse. Maybe he is not quite the development rider others have claimed. If anything I would like to think Burgess who has been the crew chief of many world champions is more in a position to be praised than anyone else. Don't fool yourself the Yamaha Rossi rode was virtually indistinguishable with the same clothes on, but far removed under them from the previous seasons M1.


I used to think Max was a whiner, but when the facts came to light after his exit from MotoGP, he was telling the truth all along about how the engineers refused to make changes or how factory bosses would withhold special race parts and of course the tire issues. Don't forget that Max is a 4 time world 250 champion and has 2 WSBK championship titles too.
For sure Rossi imploded at Ducati.
Which also revealed Stoner to be even more than he was understood to be.
I don't think we are going to ever agree on Max. LoL.
My lasting impression of Max remains his perennial complaining about everything but him when he didn't win, and only crediting himself when he did win.
He always had an excuse other than himself when it came to losing a race.
He'll never be remembered by me as someone who should have won the MotoGP, but didn't because he couldn't - just like it will be for Pedrosa.
Could have, maybe, should have - NOT.
As for JB, for sure, the Ace of Chiefs, and a huge component of the riders he worked with through the years. Would it be fair to call J B sort of a Kel Carruthers+ ?

mcromo44 is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 03:02 PM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

In regards to Kel, you're dating yourself and me too if I respond any further

LDH is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 03:20 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
In regards to Kel, you're dating yourself and me too if I respond any further
I have a friend who entered in the only FIM races ever held in Canada, as in 1967 at Mosport. Which Hailwood won, and story has it, never bothered to get out of his post run and bump start sidesaddle position until 3 rd gear on the Honda 250 6.
Does that date me ?
Have a good weekend, and sell some more suspension stuff and PC3s !

mcromo44 is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 03:53 PM
(-(-(-(-(- -)-)-)-)-)
 
andrewebay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,883
Rep Power: 1
 
Looks like someone's more comfortable with their age...


My classified(s):
Nothing at the moment

----------------
------------
---------
------
---
- '96 Race-retired GSXR 750 (Sold)
- '01 RC51 SP1 (Sold)
- '03 919

"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
andrewebay1 is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 04:03 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,636
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
Looks like someone's more comfortable with their age...

Rest assured, Mess'r LDH is "still the pup" as am I, including the comfort thusly derived.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 10-08-2013, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
Left of Centre
 
K1w1Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 3,500
Rep Power: 1
 
Getting back to Stoner, I never saw him as the moaning type, nor the difficult prick that the US press seem to cast him as. He's an Aussie, and there is a cultural element to person-to-person interactions in this part of the world that may escape some people; also, using the Daryl Beattie comments as an example, he must get sick and tired of trying to establish his credentials.

As I said in an earlier post, how many world championship titles would you expect a guy to have to win before people accept that he's got the goods? Let alone the years trailering around Australia and Europe with his parents, getting whatever racing was going.

Maybe the deal with journalists was simply that he got fed up answering questions about Rossi...

K1w1Boy is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 10-08-2013, 08:52 AM
LDH
Test Rider
 
LDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: by the ocean
Posts: 4,349
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Trackday Recognition Referral Award 
Total Awards: 2

Actually I am friends with one his is now ex-crew members from MotoGP. He has told a couple of us in confidence that as long as everything is going good that Casey is a great guy, playful, etc, but as soon as some adversity gets in his way he is the biggest, whiniest bitch ever placed on the earth and the only way to deal with him is to avoid him.

LDH is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome