Attn: Track Riders / Gamers... - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Question Attn: Track Riders / Gamers...

I'm curious as to how many of you track riders out there have ever played Tourist Trophy on PS2.

My brother-in-law has done a lot of SCCA events & is a pretty good driver when it comes to autocross. He & his car buddies were really big into GranTurismo4 a couple years back & it seemed like their gaming skills were derived from their real world driving skills.

Seeing how GT4 is a driving simulator, and Tourist Trophy is basically the same game as GT4 (except it's motorcycles instead of cars), my question is this:
Can a person hone their basic track skills on the PlayStation & then apply it them to real-world track riding?

I've signed up for my very first "Try - the - Track" day, coming up on May 23rd. This is the most beginner-oriented track experience where you can come in off the street, no track prep required to the bike, wear a helmet, leather jacket & gloves at minimum, full race leathers not required type of thing. There will be a briefing session before hand & then some sessions led by an experienced instructor.

I'm REALLY excited about this, but a little nervous. I've played TT a few times, & just yesterday I picked up a copy for $10 thinking I could work on my cornering skills - braking points, picking the right line, throttle control, etc. I need work in the cornering skills, & seeing how that's what I perceive to be a majority of track riding, I'm wondering if I'm actually getting a real-world lesson or just playing with myself in the basement.

Thoughts?

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post #2 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 11:29 AM
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FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 (xbox360)... Thats all I need to say


2008 Yamaha FZ1-Street
2005 Honda CBR 600rr-Track
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 11:37 AM
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my money is bet on your just playing with yourself in the basement



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post #4 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 12:19 PM
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The producers of GT are crazy about realism which does allow for some potential parallels to the real world. If this other game is as interested in accuracy, probably couldn't hurt to start thinking about how to handle turns.

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post #5 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 12:50 PM
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let's all pitch in and build a wireless PC3 controller that you sit on like a motorcycle. We can relocate the buttons to the appropriate places and have them actuated by real shifter, throttle, and brake levers. Huh Huh?? Anybody want to try? It would be like the NES coffee table controller except even cooler.

Ultra Awesome: NES coffee table FINAL POST!! RAH!!!!

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post #6 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
let's all pitch in and build a wireless PC3 controller that you sit on like a motorcycle. We can relocate the buttons to the appropriate places and have them actuated by real shifter, throttle, and brake levers. Huh Huh?? Anybody want to try? It would be like the NES coffee table controller except even cooler.

Ultra Awesome: NES coffee table FINAL POST!! RAH!!!!
For those that play SBK this would be a great device. It gets hard as hell to play on the more difficult settings when your fingers are doing everything that you would usually do with individual limbs. I would love to see something like this come to life. It needs to provide feedback though!

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post #7 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
let's all pitch in and build a wireless PC3 controller that you sit on like a motorcycle. We can relocate the buttons to the appropriate places and have them actuated by real shifter, throttle, and brake levers. Huh Huh?? Anybody want to try? It would be like the NES coffee table controller except even cooler.

Ultra Awesome: NES coffee table FINAL POST!! RAH!!!!
I like it...maybe you could find one of those mini-crotch rockets and use that to put your controller buttons on, it'd be like the ones at the Arcade.


And that NES "controller" coffee table is SWEET!

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post #8 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
let's all pitch in and build a wireless PC3 controller that you sit on like a motorcycle. We can relocate the buttons to the appropriate places and have them actuated by real shifter, throttle, and brake levers. Huh Huh?? Anybody want to try? It would be like the NES coffee table controller except even cooler.

Ultra Awesome: NES coffee table FINAL POST!! RAH!!!!
That would be SWEET

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post #9 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 01:52 PM
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In all seriousness there are some things that translate from a well made video game to the track.

I know T Trophy will pull the rear wheel off the ground and upset the bike on corner entry. I know it tightens up a line mid corner with the correct throttle input.

Just a couple and I'm sure there's more, but bottom line.....

Its completely different.


The "Try the Track" thing is great. Thats how I got started.

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post #10 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks tarheelguy, I appreciate the constructive input




I guess I won't fully comprehend the differences until I get out there & try it.

Abba Zaba, you my only friend.
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 02:08 PM
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I can't vouch for the video games, but I did a try-the-track thing as my first track day a month or so after buying my first 919. The first half of the day was free. There was "class" time before every session, and it was very informative. At lunch you had the option to leave, hang out, or pay a discounted rate and ride the rest of the day. I was hooked! I did 3 more track days that year!
Have fun!

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post #12 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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I'm afraid of the "getting hooked" part. Oh, I know it's coming, but I'm not financially able to support such a hobby. I've been street riding a lot with some local track addicts lately & I keep hearing how fun it is.

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post #13 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisco919 View Post
For those that play SBK this would be a great device. It gets hard as hell to play on the more difficult settings when your fingers are doing everything that you would usually do with individual limbs. I would love to see something like this come to life. It needs to provide feedback though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharp919 View Post
I like it...maybe you could find one of those mini-crotch rockets and use that to put your controller buttons on, it'd be like the ones at the Arcade.


And that NES "controller" coffee table is SWEET!
Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha_919 View Post
That would be SWEET
I have a Logitech USB force feedback wheel with variable input throttle and brake that I might be willing to sacrifice for a project like this. I can possibly offer the controller board, buttons, wiring, and a little electronic experience but that's about it. If somebody had a PW50 frame with bars, levers, throttle, and shifter we might be able to beta test this beast!

After we're done, we can sell them for $500 a pop. Shoot...I could probably build one out of 2x4s and PVC that would work for beta testing.

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post #14 of 24 Old 05-13-2009, 04:56 PM
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I built a lot of my own PC controllers in the past. Built a steering wheel and pedals for dirt cheap when they were outrageously expensive to buy. Used to play a lot of F1 and Indy Car games. I had paddle shifters and control buttons.

A couple of years later I built a motorcycle one for SBK. I later modified it so the throttle and brake (front) were operated by pedals. Something about them being on the handlebars didn't translate well to the game. No brake feedback meant it was hard to judge how far to pull. The bars turned too easy, and I kept trying to countersteer at first. Mix that with a really touchy throttle and it didn't go well. I eventually settled on a flight control stick and pedals. Cut my best lap times with that mix.

Buddy of mine has the handlebar controller you can purchase for XBox. Didn't like it either.

I don't think a video game will help much in anticipation for a track day, unless it's the track you're going to run. It's interesting to run the SBK or MotoGP tracks just before they are on TV. Makes it more familiar when watching.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-18-2009, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE...

Friday night I played TT from about 10pm until about 4:15am.
I have to say, I think it taught me a lot about throttle control, a little about cornering, & one of the biggest issues I'm trying to overcome is breaking before entering a turn.
I lost the front end on several turns but thankfully it's only a game.

Now if only the track I was going to be riding on was in the game...

Here's a link if anyone's interested. Track is completely flat, as far as I can remember.

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post #16 of 24 Old 05-18-2009, 08:59 AM
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The track almost looks like a mini Road America.

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post #17 of 24 Old 05-24-2009, 06:18 PM
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So how did your 'try the track' day go?

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post #18 of 24 Old 05-26-2009, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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So how did your 'try the track' day go?
in a word... JOYGASMIC

Friday I had a new rear tire mounted up, so I was instilled with more confidence than usual and it seemed to stick to the track pretty darned well. I only did one session on the 919, the second two sessions I was on demo bikes. Ducati North America was there with the truck packed full of toys, & Larry Pegram was there also. I didn't get an official count, but here's what I remember the fleet of demos consisting of: Streetfighter (white), Streetfighter S (red), 1198 (white) 848 (red) Monster 1100 and 1100s, Monster 696, ST1100 (I think that's the Multistrada), and like 12 or so HYPERs in different configurations. There was probably a 1098 in there somewhere too.
Oh, there was the Desmosidici, but there was no touchy touchy on that one

Demo rides were determined by a drawing system. They accepted as many riders to sign up as there were bikes an hour ahead of time (top of every hour). Then, about 20 minutes before the ride went out, each person signed up would draw a number (which corresponded with the #'s on the bikes) so whichever # you drew was the bike you got to ride. My first drawing I drew the Mulitstrada... the ONE bike out of the WHOLE fleet that I refused to ride... it was just too tall & uncomfortable when I sat on it. I was able to trade for a HYPER & although it felt odd, I adapted really quickly. The second demo 2 hours later I drew a basic HYPER as well. Even though I really hoped to get on a M1100s or a Streeghtfighter, all in all it was a fantastic experience for me.

The only down side is...
now that I've ridden an 848 (a few weeks ago) and a HYPERmotard, I've got Ducatis on the brain . I LOVE my 919, but compared to the longer range of the gears & instant power wherever you want it on the Italian bikes, & let's not forget the sexy sound of the L-Twins... I find myself wondering if there's a chance I'll find myself on one of my own someday. Before anyone says "do it" you should know that I & my wife are in the mindset that we hate monthly payments & we are dedicated to a "save before you buy" mentality. There's NO WAY that I'd walk into a dealership & put a down payment on a $15000 bike (or whatever it takes) or start down the road of monthly payments, just because "I gotta have it". So, we'll see what happens. My preference would be to ADD a 1100s Monster or something similar to the 919, but that's gonna require more money, and a larger garage (or someone to help me convince the wife to store the Honda in the basement).

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post #19 of 24 Old 05-26-2009, 02:36 PM
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Sounds like you NEED an RC51

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post #20 of 24 Old 05-26-2009, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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believe it or not, I got my first up-close & personal sound check of one on Saturday.

There was a guy pitted next to me who had a Hayden edition RC-51 and a newer (07 I think) ZX-10. I was admiring the 51 & told him I'd never actually heard one running before. He was pretty quick to fire it up for me. I do still like 'em.

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post #21 of 24 Old 05-27-2009, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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I played TT last night from about 8:30pm until shortly after 2:00am

Not the best way to spend an evening with 3 workdays left in the week, but I do think I'm getting a feel for throttle control while cornering. I sure was seeing it & feeling it while I was sleeping just before I got out of bed. Kept replaying myself around the track over and over and over...

It's funny how it affects my walking now too. I walk kinda fast anyway, but now I'm more alert to it. I have to walk down a long straight in between two rows of cubicles & make a left hand turn into a separate room to grab the prints I send from my computer. I found myself walking really fast as far to the right as possible and then picking my turning point to cut into a left turn, scraping my left shoulder on the nearside of the doorway as I passed through it.

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post #22 of 24 Old 10-07-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha_919 View Post
my question is this:
Can a person hone their basic track skills on the PlayStation & then apply it them to real-world track riding?
My opinion is YES, but only if :

- the physics are right
- your means of game control are intuitive
- the physics are right

Although one can get a lot from using a game controller, more is gained in driving sims by use of a wheel w/ pedals. I struggle to see a similar solution for riders.. Add to that the fact that your body placement is a key element I'm not sure it can help a ton.

However... it does off your good data or reference points for your brain. A good sampling of information is always good. It can even help w/ programming of your brain as you can have more 'instances' to sample from. It also can help you develop your speed sensing skills which are very critical in all forms of motorsport.

Also it can familiarize you with a track if one in the game happens to be why you actually drive/ride on.

I've moved away from consoles for a few reasons, but primarily I wanted more realism in the physics. That said I've found a couple good PC based sims that have been even more helpful. Especially rFactor as track builders have built both tracks in my area and offered them for the game.

My $0.02

Thanks - Jon

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post #23 of 24 Old 10-07-2009, 03:26 PM
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TT is the best bike game on PS period

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...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
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post #24 of 24 Old 10-07-2009, 03:35 PM
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YouTube - Tourist Trophy PS2 - Nurburgring 6'44''516 (Made in Brazil)

what i loved about TT was the realism. People can go on all they want about motoGP on 360, but as far as being a simulator its weak, its either a full video game arcade mode, or its impossible to ride. too real for a hand control. PS2 TT finds that middle ground, and even in full on simulator mode, its still somewhat manageable.

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...I'm slowly prepping the FZ...Goin to VIR with NESBA most likely next year since they are reasonably priced
^ Mark his words.

My 1000RR

Im on another forum.
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