Traxxion Dynamics AK20

[rmb]

Anyone have the Traxxion Dynamics AK20 cartridge kit for the 919? How do you like it? I know..., it's alot of $$, but I'm looking for something to match the quality and performance of the Ohlins shock.

[touring919]

Can you get a cartridge kit for the 919? That is awsome if they make them. The 919 has damper rods stock, No cartridge.

I have the AK20 in my 600RR. They are very nice. Lots of damping adjustment and very plush over bumps. My 600RR is actually more comfy on a bumpy road than my 919 was after I put the AK20 and penski tripple adjustable on it. And keep in mind my 919 hadd F4i forks and a penske single adjustable. Which made it much more plush tha it was stock.

[rmb]

From Traxxion:

For your 919 we have a couple options. First is what we refer to as our Economy Valving Upgrade. We go into the OEM cartridge and modify the OEM valving to absorb bumps better and give you a better feel. We install new springs matched to your weight and riding style and then do a full service on the forks. Our full service includes complete disassembly, cleaning/inspecting all components, polishing the inner tubes to remove any burs or build up, measuring the tubes for straightness, reassembling with new seals, fresh oil, and baseline settings.
Option two is our Axxion Valve Upgrade. Our full Axxion Valve Fork Service includes complete disassembly, hand polishing the fork tubes (reduces stiction and removes burs that may lead to a seal leak), cleaning and inspection of all parts. We install the Traxxion Dynamics Axxion Valve Kits (both Rebound and Compression) into your stock cartridges. The Axxion Valves give the bike a nice firm feel and give the front far superior bump absorption then any other valving on the market. We then install Traxxion Springs suited to your weight and intended use with proper preload. Additionally we install new OEM fork oil seals. The forks are filled with clean high performance fluid and set to our desired level. The forks are adjusted and ready for installation when you receive them, for $675.
The second option for you is our AK-20 Axxion Cartridge Kit. Our Axxion Cartridges are complete replacement cartridges that all ready have our Axxion Valves installed.
Some of the performance advantages of the AK-20 Cartridge over your stock cartridge are it is lighter then stock (less reciprocating mass), there is less stiction then stock, the AK-20 seals better then the stock unit, and then it is all hard coat anodized. The hard coat anodizing all but eliminates metal on metal contact which keeps the oil cleaner so you can go longer between services plus there is no debris in the oil to contaminate the valving. Probably the greatest benefit of going with the AK-20 is the fact that you can transfer it to a different bike. So when you go to sell you current bike you can simply remove the AK-20 reinstall the stock cartridge in the bike you are selling and install the AK-20 in your new bike with little to no modification. Just depending on what bike you go to you may need to change a couple parts, usually between $100 and $150.
The Axxion Cartridge Kit is $999.95 and includes one pair of Axxion Cartridges, one pair of Traxxion Omni Springs matched to the rider's weight, two quarts of oil, detailed installation instructions, and a cartridge holding tool for install/removal of the cartridge. Each kit is custom built to order for every customer. We can build the kit and ship it to you for installation or you can send your forks in to us and we can install the kit for $150.
Let me know how I can help.
Thanks!
Mike


=============================
Mike Hardy
Sales Manager
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.
Suspension Innovation is our Passion...
=============================

[velodesign]

How much does their economy cost (minus springs for a 220 lb guy) do you know?

[rmb]

With springs it's quoted at $450, not sure what it is w/o springs. Mike forgot the price in the original quote.

[Blue919Guy]

For $1000 you can put a CBR1000 or RC51 front end on pretty much... So that seems pretty steep for me

[arctic954]

......have you tried your stockers with new springs and good oil? It was a huge improvement on my bike.






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[rmb]

I thought about trying that but I'm looking for something to match the performance of an Ohlins shock and I doubt that springs and oil will live up to the difference in the shocks.

[rmb]

Originally Posted by Blue919Guy

For $1000 you can put a CBR1000 or RC51 front end on pretty much... So that seems pretty steep for me

I want to keep the looks of the stock 919, the RC front end looks very cool but it's not for me.

[arctic954]

.....I have Traxxion springs and their omni-buffers on a set of '07 forks. I can say that the Traxxion guys are awesome to work with....they know their stuff.

I'd say......if you have the money, you won't be disappointed. Ask for Mike.....and tell him your from WristTwisters.


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[touring919]

Are the 05 and up bike cartridge forks? Thosse options weren't out there when I did my suspenssion. That is awsome.

I say go for the AK20. Like it was put above. If you have the money get them, you will not be disapointed.

As for the 1000rr or RC1 upgrade. The stock forks with AK20 inners will out perform the fancy looking legs no problem on the street. And it wouldn't suprise me if on the track the AK forks could outdo stock USD forks. The stockers with AK20 will have very goood high speed damping allowing for good bump absorption. Stock USD forks will not have this. They will ride harsh. And bumps will upset the bike more. The AK20 low speed damping will be firmer, even though the high speed is softer. This gives good pitch control for braking, accel, and turning. The USD forks might match the AK20s with lowspeed damping but not likely. Since the aftermarket valving will have a larger adjustment range which will give the rider a better ability to get the damping right for them.

My 600rr with AK20 forks ride so much better than my 1000RR it never ceases to amaze me. Its a race bike but rides well enough to easily be used for touring.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by rmb

I thought about trying that but I'm looking for something to match the performance of an Ohlins shock and I doubt that springs and oil will live up to the difference in the shocks.

You are absolutely correct.
Respringing and reoiling the front will not even get you into the same chapter let alone being on the same page as the Ohlins rear.

If you're open to the $ level, I'd suggest the Traxxion valves as shimmed, springs, oil and general inspection rebuild.

The AK20 is a very interesting approach. IF you go that route, ask Traxxion about what someone else got from them for a 919 before, last year I think. I remember reading the thread and doing a number of posts. Traxxion set it up so both cartridges had the same compression and rebound damping force curves.
Then they get brilliantly foxy.
They used one side for rebound adjustability, using the stock rebound adjuster of 04 and later 919s.
But the other side is used for low speed compression adjustment. In other words, the top adjuster on that fork fork, would be a L S Comp adjuster.
This way you can get both Low Speed Rebound and Low Speed Compression adjustment out of a set of 919 forks, the point being that 919 fork legs do not have any provision for the typical lower leg positioned.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by rmb

I want to keep the looks of the stock 919, the RC front end looks very cool but it's not for me.

Same here.

Although I did just pick up my now fully tweaked and modd'd F4i from Mr. Willie Vass of Alberta. Full Traxxion Kit with his shim build. Valves/Shim Build/Springs/Altered Top Out/Traxxion L S Compression Needles. I wanted the Low Speed Compression adjustment capability.
The F4i when fitted with the 919 fender will still looking original 919 which is what I wanted.

[rmb]

Originally Posted by mcromo44

You are absolutely correct.
Respringing and reoiling the front will not even get you into the same chapter let alone being on the same page as the Ohlins rear.

If you're open to the $ level, I'd suggest the Traxxion valves as shimmed, springs, oil and general inspection rebuild.

The AK20 is a very interesting approach. IF you go that route, ask Traxxion about what someone else got from them for a 919 before, last year I think. I remember reading the thread and doing a number of posts. Traxxion set it up so both cartridges had the same compression and rebound damping force curves.
Then they get brilliantly foxy.
They used one side for rebound adjustability, using the stock rebound adjuster of 04 and later 919s.
But the other side is used for low speed compression adjustment. In other words, the top adjuster on that fork fork, would be a L S Comp adjuster.
This way you can get both Low Speed Rebound and Low Speed Compression adjustment out of a set of 919 forks, the point being that 919 fork legs do not have any provision for the typical lower leg positioned.

I've confirmed this with Mike already, the AK20's have both comp and reb adjustments.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by Blue919Guy

For $1000 you can put a CBR1000 or RC51 front end on pretty much... So that seems pretty steep for me

Depends what you are looking for.
If I was to put on a USD conversion, I'd be getting it fully kitted before putting it on, so the USD approach for me is even more expensive.

[arctic954]

they say..... an RC51 racing with stock suspension.... is an RC51 thats going to hit the deck eventually.

[97af]

I sent My Goldwing forks down to them to work there magic. They came back AK20 cartridges, springs and a few other G/W specific fork mods. They also sent me back a Penske rear shock to match the front fork work. Hands down the best mod ever come up with for Big Betty. A fork conversion from another bike is an option but I'd let Traxxion do what they do to the stockers before I went through the effort of a conversion for sure.....

[AllanB]

The AK20 option sounds the bizz. Yeah a RC end looks the bizz but remember it is a relatively 'old' front end now and as stated probably still needs jizzing inside to be optimum. I really like the sleeper option of the AK20 - imagine hounding the crap out of some squids on their new sports bikes on the stock looking 9er!

So $675 to fettle the stock bits or replace with the AK option for $999. Also if you go the AK route you can easily pop the stock internals back in (and rear shock) and sell the AK separately. A grand up front but you'll probably get half that back as a aftermarket sale later on.

[rmb]

Originally Posted by AllanB

So $675 to fettle the stock bits or replace with the AK option for $999. Also if you go the AK route you can easily pop the stock internals back in (and rear shock) and sell the AK separately. A grand up front but you'll probably get half that back as a aftermarket sale later on.

That's what I'm thinkin', not that I intend to sell the 919 though...

[Hondad]

In my experience there are a lot more AK's and cartridge kits on conventional forks whereas the USD forks get valves and springs. The conventional forks are usually not of the same quality of the better USD forks. I have a set of SP1 forks on my 05 RC51 done by Traxxion and a Penske double done by them also. Traxxion forks are more plush feeling thenthe Ohlins that I had, but that is subjective. There are a lot of SV's with AK's. It is important that who ever you use, has done 919's before. Dan Kyle has done more RC's then anyone that I know. You might want to contact him and see if he has an answers to upgrading 919 forks. Ohlins has some new kits out for SV's 2gen. The fork are not that much different. Both are Showa.

[AllanB]

LDH .....

[firedave]

I'll know what Dan Kyle can do to the '04-up forks here soon. Mine are there right now.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by firedave

I'll know what Dan Kyle can do to the '04-up forks here soon. Mine are there right now.

Dan Kyle is very good, but are you aware of Alberta's own Willie Vass of Carstairs ?

[firedave]

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Dan Kyle is very good, but are you aware of Alberta's own Willie Vass of Carstairs ?

No I didn't. I wasn't aware of anyone in Alberta that did fork work. What does he use for components? What are his prices like?

[zaq123]

just have them redo valving with new shim stack and springs. You will get exactly the same results as AK20 kit for less $$. It's much easier/cheaper for them just to drop cartridge in, but it would cost you money as the cartridge kit is more $$. You already have 20mm cartridge in your forks, just revalve it.

Now if they had 25mm kit, different story. Ohlins already came up with 30mm kits, freaking insane. Obviously they aren't for 919

[rmb]

Originally Posted by firedave

I'll know what Dan Kyle can do to the '04-up forks here soon. Mine are there right now.

What all are they doing to them?

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by firedave

No I didn't. I wasn't aware of anyone in Alberta that did fork work. What does he use for components? What are his prices like?

He carries Traxxion, Ohlins and Penkse components.
He has strong ties to Traxxion and Penske at least, I don't know about Ohlins but suspect he does.
His hourly rate is excellent, and his hours charged are short.
Willie is a whiz.
Suspension/Chassis and Engines.
He's been trackside tuning at the AMA Pro level for years, Chris Peris and Josh Day for example.
Willie got freighted in for Daytona.
He was also freighted in to Macua.
I'll put it this way, you would be hard pressed to find someone better on suspension that Willie.
He's done my 919 and my 750 suspension, plus clutch tuning on the 750.
And he's an absolutely super guy to deal with, and gives you time for your questions and gives real answers.
I have his contact info if you want it.

[LDH]

Originally Posted by AllanB

LDH .....

Don't look at me everything I say sounds biased anyway...

Long before I started working here though I was one of the two guys that took part of the test between Dan Kyle Racing (Ohlins 25mm Cartridge Kit) & Traxxion Dynamics (AK-20 kit) on the 1000RR site where basically both vendors allowed myself & another independent racer test each others front end set-ups.

At the end of a 40+ page internet forum war both of us went faster on the Ohlins stuff and Max @ Traxxion had to rework his AK-20's about a dozen times to get them even close to the performance level of Ohlins including altering internal lengths and valving specs etc. This was pretty amusing considering the fact that Max's original claim was that his AK-20's were better out of the box than the Ohlins were and that it was the Ohlins products that needed a lot of massaging to get them set-up properly.

The reality of the test proved the exact opposite.

[zaq123]

It's like comparing hp between 600cc bike and 1000cc.
Besides the fact that Ohlins is at least 20 years ahead of Traxxion on suspension technology, you can not compare 20mm valves to 25mm.
And now their new line with 30mm makes Ohlins way way ahead of the game.

Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter

Don't look at me everything I say sounds biased anyway...

Long before I started working here though I was one of the two guys that took part of the test between Dan Kyle Racing (Ohlins 25mm Cartridge Kit) & Traxxion Dynamics (AK-20 kit) on the 1000RR site where basically both vendors allowed myself & another independent racer test each others front end set-ups.

At the end of a 40+ page internet forum war both of us went faster on the Ohlins stuff and Max @ Traxxion had to rework his AK-20's about a dozen times to get them even close to the performance level of Ohlins including altering internal lengths and valving specs etc. This was pretty amusing considering the fact that Max's original claim was that his AK-20's were better out of the box than the Ohlins were and that it was the Ohlins products that needed a lot of massaging to get them set-up properly.

The reality of the test proved the exact opposite.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by zaq123

It's like comparing hp between 600cc bike and 1000cc.
Besides the fact that Ohlins is at least 20 years ahead of Traxxion on suspension technology, you can not compare 20mm valves to 25mm.
And now their new line with 30mm makes Ohlins way way ahead of the game.

Well, I don't know about the 600 : 1000 analogy.
BUT
Ohlins is Ohlins and no one else is in the same chapter, let alone on the same page, when you get right down to it.
Ohlins does complete unit design and manufacture of both front and rear units. Their designs tend to lead, while others I view more as being reactive designers.
I see Traxxion and Race Tech more as specialists that work within the boundaries of Japanese OEM subsupply units as "cores" to work with. I think they are both very good at that. Race Tech is supplying their own rear shocks now, but I know nothing about them, and wonder how they compare.

[touring919]

Maybe so. But I think the OP is more intested in comfort and ocation spirited ridding. So LDH information, valuable and interesting, isn't too relavant.
From what I have sampled the AK forks are more suple than the Ohlins over rough pavement. Good for comfort. But I would agree the ohlins do seem more planted riding at 10/10ths.

If you care to add to this LDH it would be nice. I've only sampled 1 of each on a 600RR.

[zaq123]

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Well, I don't know about the 600 : 1000 analogy.

what I was trying to say that it's like comparing 1k to 600 engine and wonder why 1k has more HP
25mm kit will perform obviously better that 20mm

[zaq123]

Originally Posted by touring919

Maybe so. But I think the OP is more intested in comfort and ocation spirited ridding.

for that purpose I'd just revalved stock cartridges, cheaper that way.

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by zaq123

what I was trying to say that it's like comparing 1k to 600 engine and wonder why 1k has more HP
25mm kit will perform obviously better that 20mm

Aahhhhh, got it !

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by touring919

From what I have sampled the AK forks are more supple than the Ohlins over rough pavement. But I would agree the ohlins do seem more planted riding at 10/10ths.

Interesting comment.
Doesn't Ohlins generally have a better reputation on smooth tracks as a stand alone issue ?
From a design point of view, doesn't Ohlins design to a somewhat different philosophy?
As in deriving their damping force curve shapes and magnitudes by a mix of orficing and valving?
While Penkse (re rears) and Traxxion/RaceTech tend to rely on valving alone?
If so, I wonder what the association is, if there is any, re Ohlins said superiority and smooth tracks ?

[zaq123]

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Interesting comment.
Doesn't Ohlins generally have a better reputation on smooth tracks as a stand alone issue ?
From a design point of view, doesn't Ohlins design to a somewhat different philosophy?
As in deriving their damping force curve shapes and magnitudes by a mix of orficing and valving?
While Penkse (re rears) and Traxxion/RaceTech tend to rely on valving alone?
If so, I wonder what the association is, if there is any, re Ohlins said superiority and smooth tracks ?

I think philosophy there is : bigger valve+bigger shims=more precise damping force tunning is possible and it's more controlled.

Anyone will tell you that RT open valves are not even in the same class as let's say Ohlins UES kit which is 20mm kit btw

[LDH]

I can tell you this as evidence. For several years as an instructor at Barber I listened to my students complain about "the ripples on the back straight" or the "chatter going into Turn 5" or the "tank slapper inducing left hand side of the front straight when passing" etc. None of their talk ever made sense to me and I dismissed most of it figuring they were on the wrong line into those areas as I NEVER felt any of it.

When I did the AK-20 test the moment I went out on the track with the AK-20's installed I felt each & every one of those nuances of the track (and this was all documented in my review at the time) and not in a good way. I could feel every undulation of pavement, every ripple or sealer patch etc and I didn't like it. It was very disconcerting and took my focus off of riding the bike (hitting apexes, body position and throttle management) and diverted it to riding around obstacles on the track to prevent the bike from acting this way or that way as it made its way around the course.

When I switched back to the Ohlins I was immediately reminded of how smooth I always though Barber was. In reality Barber had a lot of rough patches and chatter bumps from cars, but my Ohlins suspension smoothed all of that out to the point I didn't notice a single bit of it. All that time my students were 100% right about the conditions on the track, but I had never noticed it because the Ohlins did it's job.

For me it really was that simple.

[rmb]

LDH, what services do you offer for the '07 919 forks?

[LDH]

We are doing Ohlins revalving, fork polishing to reduce friction, springs and of course using Ohlins oil to suit the valving.

Firedave will be able to give a full report soon

[mcromo44]

Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter

We are doing Ohlins revalving, fork polishing to reduce friction, springs and of course using Ohlins oil to suit the valving.

Firedave will be able to give a full report soon

Are you doing some custom drilling to alter the low speed compression a bit ?
I ask on the basis of that having been done to mine by someone else.
And it wasn't lost on me that such mods appear nowhere on the RaceTech instructions for doing your own valves and shim stacks - both of which affect the hi speed only as you well know, but others on this site may not.