How can there isn't much of a suspension interest on this forum? there are so many options that can improve 919 overall handling and I'm not even talking about the expensive rc51 swap. After all, suspension is very (if not the most)
important part of the bike riding experience. It seems like there are more threads about helmet cutting, handlebar speakers and rizoma this rizoma that. And than someone posts a pic of his bike and everyone gives him chit about chicken strips. You would be amazed how well and easy you can push 919 with a few hundred $$ in suspension upgrades and good set of tires.
I haven't even seen any questions/posts about fork fluid replacement that does need to be replaced like any other fluid.
Not looking to start a mess, just a thought
i think there is plenty of suspension action on here, thing is there arent a whole lot of options to cover. and what options there are, have been covered in previous threads. i just did a rear ohlins and front .85 racetechs with synthetic fluid. havent rode it yet though. . . .
i think there is plenty of suspension action on here, thing is there arent a whole lot of options to cover. and what options there are, have been covered in previous threads. i just did a rear ohlins and front .85 racetechs with synthetic fluid. havent rode it yet though. . . .
I guess I just got spoiled by VFR forum, they have as many options (or as little) as our 919. It's nice to have a separate forum section just for a suspension, this way it's not all over the board, just MO. VFR Discussion -> Suspension
Quite simply because you can spend $10,000 dollars on the suspension on a 919 and a bone stock 600cc bike will still beat the 919 like a red-headed step child in terms of performance, agility and ability.
The chassis & the swingarm are the 919's weakest links and no amount of suspension parts will ever change that. Trust me I wish it was different as I usually preach suspension suspension suspension first & foremost on all sportbikes, but the 919 isn't really much of a sportbike at all. I sell Ohlins shocks, in fact I have every single Ohlins shock for the 919 left in the world sitting here on my shelf, but the truth is the shock is an expensive mod that at best only improves the compliancy of the 919 adding to the comfort of the rider. Typically installing an Ohlins shock on a sportbike results in taking a sharp knife and turning it into a surgical scalpel with the 919 the results are just not as prominent so my take is I ride the 919 as it was designed and enjoy it for what it is rather than trying to limit its focus by trying to make it competitive with true R-type sportbikes.
i hear so many different opinions on racetech internals, not sure if its worth it or not yet
I installed RT valves in my f4i forks (03 919) They do help controlling my .95 springs better than stock valves did. Plus my 02 f4i forks were due for an oil change, oil was very filthy. So they got new Ohlins 5w oil and new bushings/seals as well.
LDH, I completely agree with you, 919 is not R bike, it's more of a public road queen. However, like you said, it can be tweaked a little to be more enjoyable, .66 springs won't be too much fun unless you are 100lbs guy, same aplies to rear 1000lbs spring made for 200lbs guy
IMO, R bikes should be ridden on the track to enjoy them for what R were made. There is no sense in building R bike for the street or building street bike for the track. It is the same thing with vehicles. I had over 20k invested in my jeep and it does wonderful in rock climbing on the trail but it just a shame to waist in on the highway or climb Mall parking lots. Yes, It's nice to just put it in gear and go when it's 2 ft of snow on the ground or take that muddy shortcut when road is closed but how often do I do that.
I think that's why I still have 919, it closes that gap and attempts to give you that sporty feeling on the street while steel being comfortable. Messing with its suspension is nothing more than making it fit you personally and it does make a big difference
Personally, I read all the suspension threads, but I don't have a lot to add, nor money to spend. I had an SV650 that I put springs and RT valves in the forks and swapped the stock shock for a GSXR 600 donor. Made a big difference on that bike, but spent barely $300 to do it. Stock 919 set up is already better than my "improved" SV suspension, so I'm happy with it as is for the moment. Eventually, I'd like to put an .85 or .90 spring up front and re-spring the rear shock, but that's about all I'm willing to spend on 919 suspension. If I wanted better than that, I'd probably buy a different bike before I'd invest more than $1000 in upgrading the 919 suspension.
I've kinda wondered the same thing Zaq123, and have come to the conclusion that most here aren't really that technically savvy. Most of the questions on here are pretty simple at best, and if you have the courage to post up a "complicated" modification you get inundated with pic requests and step by step instructions, including what tools to use for each and every bolt (at least from the newbies, the old guys try to sell ya over-priced parts, and try to demean ya for being creative). I think that understanding the value of simple suspension mods is difficult for most, perhaps they don't have a good reference point. Finding the correct middle road of cost vs benefit is an ongoing point of contention on this site as well. But then again, most hard core modifying bike riders won't be on a mediocre bike like the 919 anyway, they blow wads of cash modifying their R bikes and ride what should be dedicated race bikes on the street.
Being honest about ones actual skill levels and real needs when it comes to a motorcycle seems to be a problem for most. The bling factor and need to boost ones self esteem thru possessions seems to be an ongoing issue for most as well.
For those of us who know how to wrench, understand our actual needs vs wants, and have an understanding of what these minor modifications can do to enhance the ride, well, cost effective suspension tweaks are a must... and the 919 is the perfect bike for our street riding pleasure!!! And the $300 or less it takes to do it is not out of balance at all IMHO.....
__________________
Spoiler:
ALL PARTS HAVE ARRIVED....let the wrenching begin!!!
My 9'er had a low side slide.....She's down but not out......and about to rise from the ashes!
Currently:
2004 Honda 919 Silver
599 Headlight
Buell M2 shield
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII
Akrapovic exhaust - GSXR shorty CF
Seat with gel insert and re-shape
Custom LED Rear lights w/ vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr / F3 )
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed
ASV levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom one-off Bars W/Heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
RC51 front brakes w/Bremzen pads-10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Foot Peg conversion
etc, etc,
How can there isn't much of a suspension interest on this forum? there are so many options that can improve 919 overall handling and I'm not even talking about the expensive rc51 swap. After all, suspension is very (if not the most)
important part of the bike riding experience. It seems like there are more threads about helmet cutting, handlebar speakers and rizoma this rizoma that. And than someone posts a pic of his bike and everyone gives him chit about chicken strips. You would be amazed how well and easy you can push 919 with a few hundred $$ in suspension upgrades and good set of tires.
I haven't even seen any questions/posts about fork fluid replacement that does need to be replaced like any other fluid.
Not looking to start a mess, just a thought
1
I think there's been more suspension threads and posts than you realize.
2
A 919 is a classic UJM of old resurrected as new, and frankly, many 919 riders are like the CB/Z/GS riders of old that just rode them the way they came from the factory. There is a segment of the 919 ridership that is interested in, and does, suspension mods from mild to wild.
Totally agree with Lord Duckhunter. Before spending money on the suspension, try setting the sag for street use, rebound trim (if you have it) then some good tires. I think the stock suspension is not too bad for me at 170 lbs. That being said and done, I put a Penske sport shock on my '07 last year. Like Lord Duckhunter said, the ride quality improved somewhat. The main benefit was a damping adjuster that seriously works on the street and ride height being adjustable separately from preload.
Totally agree with Lord Duckhunter. Before spending money on the suspension, try setting the sag for street use, rebound trim (if you have it) then some good tires. I think the stock suspension is not too bad for me at 170 lbs. That being said and done, I put a Penske sport shock on my '07 last year. Like Lord Duckhunter said, the ride quality improved somewhat. The main benefit was a damping adjuster that seriously works on the street and ride height being adjustable separately from preload.
what are your sag #'s for the front? there is no way both free and rider sag are ok for your weight with stock 919 springs. I bet you got rider sag ok but you have no free sag now and your preload cranked in almost all the way.
You need something around .9 spring
Quote:
Originally Posted by sml2727 View Post
Sorry to hijack the thread here but what do most poeple do to the front shocks?
I don't see a "most" answer doing service to your very good question.
It's really a matter of stages :
1 Do nothing.
2 Make sure front end is straight and both sides squared up and parallel.
2 Set sag and adjust rebound adjustment as best possible.
3 Change fork oil to higher grade, not thicker, better quality.
4 Respring to suit your particulars, 919s being notoriously softly sprung.
5 Modify stock internal compression and rebound valving.
6 Fit aftermarket valves, be they Ohlins, Racetech or Traxxion
7 Fit aftermarket cartridges by Traxxion, one leg has external Compression adjustment, the other has external Rebound adjustment.
8 Graft on an upside down fork off another bike, likely an RC51. (some have put on 600 Honda SS front ends, but there seems to be way more interest in RC51 fronts on 919s than anything else on the basis of what I have seen so far on WT)
My 919 is Stage 6. (Racetechs)
The above is typical from lots of posts to different threads.
It wouldn't take long to sketch out a range of stages for the rear, then the entire matter is nicely framed and things can stem from that.
Which are also total crap in stock form and basically no better than the forks that come on the 919 to begin with. I rode with a couple guys years ago that had both done the F4i fork swap & they praised them as if the hand of god personally had worked on their bikes. They went on & on about how the front end was now so responsive & this & that. I went on a ride with them out on their own twisty backroads and even though I was loaded with saddle bags & a cooler on roads I had never ridden before I still had to wait for them about 2-3 minutes at the end of each road for them to catch up.
Some people wouldn't know a good mod from a poor one to save their life. They just think different is better regardless....
Which are also total crap in stock form and basically no better than the forks that come on the 919 to begin with. I rode with a couple guys years ago that had both done the F4i fork swap & they praised them as if the hand of god personally had worked on their bikes. They went on & on about how the front end was now so responsive & this & that. I went on a ride with them out on their own twisty backroads and even though I was loaded with saddle bags & a cooler on roads I had never ridden before I still had to wait for them about 2-3 minutes at the end of each road for them to catch up.
Some people wouldn't know a good mod from a poor one to save their life. They just think different is better regardless....
that's true. However f4i fork is big step up to 02-03 919 forks just for the sake of ability to adjust preload
lol THIS is why they arent more suspension threads. its starts out with someone asking a question, and ends with someone saying "the 919 doesnt have a moto gp frame on it, so its not worth touching the suspension"
lol THIS is why they arent more suspension threads. its starts out with someone asking a question, and ends with someone saying "the 919 doesnt have a moto gp frame on it, so its not worth touching the suspension"
I'm still glad I did the Penske rear and RaceTech front.
It's way better than it was before, so the money was well spent.
If I wanted a 600 style chassis, engine, riding position and plastic, that's what I would have bought. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted a 919. BUT I wanted some improvement so went about doing it. It's clear that there are others looking at it the same way too. LDH is pretty passionate on the matter. He may not want or need a redone 919 chassis for track days, but I sure do, both want and need that is.
I'm still glad I did the Penske rear and RaceTech front.
It's way better than it was before, so the money was well spent.
If I wanted a 600 style chassis, engine, riding position and plastic, that's what I would have bought. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted a 919. BUT I wanted some improvement so went about doing it. It's clear that there are others looking at it the same way too. LDH is pretty passionate on the matter. He may not want or need a redone 919 chassis for track days, but I sure do, both want and need that is.
I think that what is missing in some of the arguments is that at different skill levels, different changes have different impacts. So, for example, those of us that aren't track gods (me for example, I am a fast intermediate), can get a change that will help us ride the bike faster (even if that same change wouldn't make as big of difference for a significantly faster rider. For example, my local track has two turns that are rather long and the pavement is in poor shape for motorcycles (it is a car track, primarily), in these corners there is usually a lot of front in chatter. A faster/more skilled rider can ride through chatter much easier than the average Joe. However, if the average Joe can make a change to reduce the chatter, their confidence level will increase and they will start running much faster laptimes. So, sometimes the changes might not be an amazing change for the bike (if an extremely fast rider were lapping the bike) but instead a change that will greatly increase confidence for the rest of us. And, confidence makes a huge difference at all levels.
You're pretty much right Zaq123. I set the front rider sag at 30% of the Honda spec for total stroke. That did leave some free sag though, 1/2" as I remember. I actually had to reduce pre-load to get the rider sag. Youve got me interested though, I should re-measure it. Maybe even record it this time, DOH!!
I'm still glad I did the Penske rear and RaceTech front.
It's way better than it was before, so the money was well spent.
If I wanted a 600 style chassis, engine, riding position and plastic, that's what I would have bought. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted a 919. BUT I wanted some improvement so went about doing it. It's clear that there are others looking at it the same way too. LDH is pretty passionate on the matter. He may not want or need a redone 919 chassis for track days, but I sure do, both want and need that is.
im with ya on it. i understand the mods wont convert my 919 into a 600ss, but i just installed my rear ohlins and my new springs/oil up front, and hopefully ill see some overall improvement in the way it rides/handles.
im with ya on it. i understand the mods wont convert my 919 into a 600ss, but i just installed my rear ohlins and my new springs/oil up front, and hopefully ill see some overall improvement in the way it rides/handles.
You'll love what the Ohlins does for the rear. It kept me from selling my 919.
blah blah 600 this, blah blah money that. blah blah, I'm tha fastest guy around and you couldn't catch me with a rocket strapped to your ass. Who gives a frigginshit about that? There'll always be someone faster. Riding motorcycles isn't a money making propesition. Putting Fararri shocks on my Dakota won't make my Dakota into a Fararri. No shit? geeze I'd have never gussed.
My 919 rode NICE. Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better that what it did when I took delivery of it. It still handled like a 919, which was ok with me. I bought a used Ohlins, sold it for what I had in it. Didn't cost me a penny.
If I had to do it over again, I'd send my shock and $200 to the guy in Jersey who will respring and valve the thing and ride happily ever after. If you don't have $200 to spend, you got yourself into the wrong hobby.
have you tried them yourself personally to merit knowledge that they indeed were crap?
Yes I did. Bone stock they were no better than the 919 forks. The damping was still incorrect as well as the spring rates. Re-worked wit the appropriate changes they were better than the 919 forks and greatly aided in the comfort of the ride, but when you start pushing the bike to the point where it all comes into play the bike ultimately handles the same.
I didn't get the opportunity to try the F4i forks along with the Ohlins shock though. Sometimes a better balanced equation turns out to be greater than the sum of its parts so I regret not having that opportunity.
Overall when it comes to the expense and time involved in obtaining then properly valving & springing the F4i forks (plus you have to buy the fender) I guess I would just as soon leave the 919 front end alone. It has non-existent feel & feedback, but it is very sure footed. If you just put some faith into the front end it will not lead you astray even on extremely nasty, unkempt roads at speeds well above what is prudent. The rear is what you need to be mindful of as it wallows & bounces around at the mere thought of a mid-corner line change let alone an actual imperfection in the road surface or bump etc.
i def dont feel confident in the front end, there is no feedback which drives me crazy. i must admit, i've been a little spoiled by my last bike (250 ninja) so i know my desires are a bit skewed. keep in mind, the tires made a HUGE difference, but i still want atleast SOME feedback lol.
since mine is an 02 and i was looking for 04+ forks, it was advised that i get f4 or f4i forks since they were the same price but had greater flexibility to finetune it. i lucked out after hunting for 2-4 months and picked up a nice set of 00-02 f4 forks for $130 shipped to my door. also bought a 05 919 rear shock for $30 shipped to my door. trying to do suspension mods on a budget.... i think i'm doing a decent job so far.
i'll be frank, my understanding of suspensions for motorcycles is not high, and just about every thread i've read relating to suspension here on this forum was over my head and i'd like to think i'm a decently intelligent guy (god i hope....). so i'm going for the cheapest and easiest ways to make some mods to see if it makes a difference.
i agree, the rear end is horrible, but i dont have $900 for a single shock. nor do i want a shock that is specificantly fine tuned just for me. i do alot of 2up and i carry my gear when i go on long commutes, so i need some adjustability if that makes sense.
i agree, the rear end is horrible, but i dont have $900 for a single shock. nor do i want a shock that is specificantly fine tuned just for me. i do alot of 2up and i carry my gear when i go on long commutes, so i need some adjustability if that makes sense.
Riding around with a high performance rear shock that is tuned to you will still provide better overall ride quality when riding 2-up than a stock shock will. You simply dial the preload up to max & make due when you have a passenger, but what you will find is that the linear spring and the better damping alleviate alot of the wallowing around that you normally get with a pillion rider.
Additionally since the 919 lacks any type of linkage on the swingarm the shock has to run a very high spring rate. Unlike lower spring rates where the springs are available in half rates 80, 85, 90, 95Nm etc anything over 120nm pretty much only comes in full rates 120 , 130, 140 & so on. The standard spring for the Ohlins shock is 180nm and that means that it can basically handle a much broader range of rider weight and in doing so loses some of the fine tuning ability that a bike with a linkage requiring lower rate springs would have. The good news is though that it is still much more closely tuned to what the 919 needs than the stock shock could ever dream of being.
i STILL cant afford $900, nor can i justify paying 1/3 of the total motorcycle price on just 1 damn shock... what's this revalving and new spring talk relating to the 919 shock? is this a viable alternative?
A lot of people do the revalve thing on the stock shocks, but as a test rider that has sampled every level of suspension from bone stock to unobtanium Factory Superbike stuff I cannot in good conscience condone that course of action. There's just no return on the investment. Might as well be lighting that money on fire. Stock shocks are crap period, they aren't worth their weight as a boat anchor and I feel anyone that offers to revalve it is just trying to get money out of the customer with little regard for what they are giving them in return kinda like a used car salesmen. I mean we won't even touch a stock shock here...
Furthermore if you are serious enough about wanting to improve the ride quality of the bike to want to spend $200-$300 on a revalve of the stock shock that doesn't do much of anything then why not save up the money get the $900 and have the best product available in the world. That will not only increase the actual performance & value of the bike, but also your mental confidence as well which is sometimes even more important...
Just how transferrable are the Ohlins? If I buy one for the 919, would I be able to transfer it to a future bike, or sell it to someone who owns something other than a 919? Just asking, since I don't expect $900 to drop in my pocket anytime soon.
Just how transferrable are the Ohlins? If I buy one for the 919, would I be able to transfer it to a future bike, or sell it to someone who owns something other than a 919? Just asking, since I don't expect $900 to drop in my pocket anytime soon.
It's made specifically for the 919. It might fit physically fit another model of Honda etc, but the valving and selected spring rate/size is for the 919 and would not be optimal on any other bike.
Then again I've got a Hornet 600 shock that is about to be fitted to a VTR250 and regardless of valving specs, with the proper spring rate I suspect it will be way better than the OEM shock. I mean it would be hard pressed to be worse LOL
A lot of people do the revalve thing on the stock shocks, but as a test rider that has sampled every level of suspension from bone stock to unobtanium Factory Superbike stuff I cannot in good conscience condone that course of action. There's just no return on the investment. Might as well be lighting that money on fire. Stock shocks are crap period, they aren't worth their weight as a boat anchor and I feel anyone that offers to revalve it is just trying to get money out of the customer with little regard for what they are giving them in return kinda like a used car salesmen. I mean we won't even touch a stock shock here...
Furthermore if you are serious enough about wanting to improve the ride quality of the bike to want to spend $200-$300 on a revalve of the stock shock that doesn't do much of anything then why not save up the money get the $900 and have the best product available in the world. That will not only increase the actual performance & value of the bike, but also your mental confidence as well which is sometimes even more important...
ok, take away external reservoir/bladder from both (yes, Ohlins is much more superiour here) and forget about bling-bling $300 external preload adjuster (I don't mind taking the time getting my ass off the bike and performing preload adjustment with the wrench). Also take away Ohlins spring (yes it is much more stable than stock and not progressively wound for "do it all for everyone" factor as stock one.
Now please explain me what is the difference between stock and Ohlins.
So far this is what I can see:
1. Ohlins is more adjustable unit out of box. Stock unit has to be build just right and will lack wide adjustability for different riding conditions (very important for the track). Ohlins has high selection of shaft jets and needles, stock has just one selection - stock. I bet HO201 comes from Ohlins with the same jet/needle set for everyone + 2 sets of springs with different rate, one spring gets returned back.
Ohlins (that part with the spring is the seal head assembly, not found in showa):
Yes, Ohlins is a much much much better shock, but stock unit can be rebuild for 919 needs. My unit is being rebuild with an addition of Ohlins spring and KYB remote reservoir with 20 click compression and good amount of oil. Like you said above, it would be hard pressed to be worse than stock 04+ 919 unit.
My 9'er had a low side slide.....She's down but not out......and about to rise from the ashes! 
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