On the 919 Dual Sport, I'm running a remote oil filter. It's going to be plumbed with about 28" of hose back and forth.
I'm concerned that the size of the hose (1/2" ID) and the length is going to really make the oil system inadequate. I'm thinking about over driving the oil pump to speed it up and then modifying the pressure bleed valve to allow slightly higher pressure.
The stock oil pump drive is underdriven (25 to 26 tooth sprockets) at about 91% and the pressure is capped at 71psi @ 6000rpm. By flipping the sprocket ratios out (26-25 teeth)with stock sprockets from a 600 Bandit I can get it it overdriven at 104%. Then with one additional shim I should be able to get a few more psi out of it.
What do you think boys? Any issues that I'm just not seeing?
I have no specific experience with anything directly comparable to what you suggest. However, I would be concerned about over driving the speed of the pump. I'm thinking the pump components are designed for a specific maximum speed and over driving might exceed the max rpm for the pump and lead to a failure.
Some things to maybe look into. Is a 900rr pump different from the 919 - could it be used as an upgrade? Can you use steel braided lines similar to brake lines to avoid loss of pressure from hose expansion? Would it make more sense to go with a skid plate and leave the filter in the stock location?
Good to see you're still working on it. I was wondering where you were at with it.
Thanks brutha. It's sickening how expensive KTM parts are. The set, USED cost me almost $1000!
Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy
I have no specific experience with anything directly comparable to what you suggest. However, I would be concerned about over driving the speed of the pump. I'm thinking the pump components are designed for a specific maximum speed and over driving might exceed the max rpm for the pump and lead to a failure.
Some things to maybe look into. Is a 900rr pump different from the 919 - could it be used as an upgrade? Can you use steel braided lines similar to brake lines to avoid loss of pressure from hose expansion? Would it make more sense to go with a skid plate and leave the filter in the stock location?
Good to see you're still working on it. I was wondering where you were at with it.
Great info. I considered the negative effects of overdriving the pump but we're only talking about 8% and that 8% will only matter at the very end of the rpm spectrum. This will be a dual sport and I can't imagine it will see redline very often, if ever.
I believe the 900rr pump is the same and it's driven by the same gear ratios as the 919. The Bandit 600 is overdriven so I'm assuming that I'll be okay on that front.
I might go with braided lines just for heat resistance but the distance is what is scaring me a bit. Fifty six inches of hose could cause quite a bit of pressure loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84
Why are you relocating it?
The 21" front wheel get's a little close at full compression and of course, it's directly inline with the filter. A well placed rock, could ruin my month!
Thanks brutha. It's sickening how expensive KTM parts are. The set, USED cost me almost $1000!
Great info. I considered the negative effects of overdriving the pump but we're only talking about 8% and that 8% will only matter at the very end of the rpm spectrum. This will be a dual sport and I can't imagine it will see redline very often, if ever.
I believe the 900rr pump is the same and it's driven by the same gear ratios as the 919. The Bandit 600 is overdriven so I'm assuming that I'll be okay on that front.
I might go with braided lines just for heat resistance but the distance is what is scaring me a bit. Fifty six inches of hose could cause quite a bit of pressure loss.
The 21" front wheel get's a little close at full compression and of course, it's directly inline with the filter. A well placed rock, could ruin my month!
Like someone else stated. How about leaving it where it is and using a skid plate?
Also if the oil pump is like others i have seen it should be pretty much positive displacement... meaning that its like a roots style super charger in that for every rotation it pushes the same amount of air/ fluid. That being said in a closed system that style of pump will show very minimal loss of pressure over a longer distance. Am i wrong in my thinking here?
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No need to overdrive the pump, and in fact positive displacement trochoidal type pumps are specifically designed for a maximum speed and can cavitate / aerate the oil if spun too fast. I've had to go the other way (undergearing) when modifying an engine for a higher redline.
1/2" I.D. hose will probably not present much restriction to flow, but will increase the pump up time when the engine is started, possibly causing slightly accelerated wear.
A couple very important points-- be sure the hose you're using is rated for at least twice the pressure it will ever see at the hottest operating temperature the engine will ever attain, particularly important if you will be plonking along at low speed / higher RPM. Also, -8 or -10 braided stainless / neoprene hose is preferable to the fabric braid covered hose for it's superior pressure rating and much better physical protection. This protection notwithstanding, shield the entire run of both hoses with a bash plate, and keep it as far away from the exhaust as possible.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
thats what i was thinking... a positive displacement pump should have VERY little pressure drop in a closed system like this. I would be slightly worried about the time untill the motors oil lines are pressurized... 56in of 1/2in diameter hosing and an oil filter is quite a bit to fill... and that initial startup of a motor is were the most wear occurs.
I second or third the bash plate idea and retain it where it is. A bit of 3mm plate alloy will stop any stone damage. You'll want one anyway to keep the crap off the front of the engine.
Where's the radiator going? Or are you getting a pair of VTR1000 ones and side mounting?
The remote oil filter kits I bought are made by Spectre and come with all sorts of fittings and parts. The kits could be used on pretty much any engine but using hard oil lines instead of rubber ones turned out to be loads of fun!
Each manifold has two 3/8 NPT threaded ports but one on each manifold was left hand threaded! Trying to find a brake line adapter fitting in left hand thread was impossible so I had those ports welded up and re-tapped them with normal 3/8 NPT.
Now, I get to shim the pressure bypass valve to increase the pressure a bit and off we go.....................
thats pretty slick... but one question. are you also going to relocate the oil cooler?
Nope. This is a dual sport and rarely will it ever hit high rpm's where lubricating oil experiences high pressure loads and the resulting temperature increases.
If my datalogger shows that I'm way off base, then I may plumb in an air-to-oil cooler later on.
Nope. This is a dual sport and rarely will it ever hit high rpm's where lubricating oil experiences high pressure loads and the resulting temperature increases.
If my datalogger shows that I'm way off base, then I may plumb in an air-to-oil cooler later on.
THEN whats the point of the 919 motor haha. Can ur data logger log oil temps?
I'll probably thread a compression fitting and a thermocouple into the oil galley plug on the right side of the engine. That should give me real world temperature data.
I always think it is odd that the 919 has a oil cooler under the oil filter directly behind the headers. Ie in a area that when riding is constantly being bombarded with a very hot airflow.
Then again just about every bike also has a set of hot headers right next to the radiator ..............
Back to the radiator - where are yours going on that set-up?
Back to the radiator - where are yours going on that set-up?
As of right now, I'm planning on using the stock radiator in the stock position but.........I do have a backup plan. I found a wrecking yard in the UK who has a set of Varadero right and left side radiators sitting on a shelf "waiting" for me. We'll see.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyb900
Jeff,
I have nothing to add that will help except to say that it looks very interesting, fun and good luck.
Thanks Gary and thanks a bunch for letting me temporarilly adopt your peg brackets! I have been looking at them for months but I'm finally getting close to tackling that part of the project soon.
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