Just swapped over to Honda Gold HP4S 10w30 full Synth. So far it seems to be very good. However, after the long day of riding on Sunday it did go into a false neutral from fifth into sixth. Now this could have been me as I was kind of lazily shift up through the gears. However this is the first time it has ever happened to me. I gave it 10seconds pulled the clutch back and it and it went into sixth no problem.
So think I need to go back up to 10w40. This bike has never missed a gear since I bought it and changed the oil for the first time. Now, I have missed multiple gears up shifting and down shifting.
Not sure what my bike had in it when I bought it but the site glass showed it to be black and I missed sixth on my ride home when I bought it. So I changed it to Mobile 1 4T 10w40 and a OEM Honda Filter. Second change was to Honda HP4 10w40. Third change was the Honda Gold HP4S 10w30. Back to missing gears. So either the tranny doesn't like the full synthetic or the lighter weight. My riding temperatures have been in the 50s in the morning and the mid 70 to mid 80s for my ride home. However, the bike sits outside in full sun light and it does get into the 90's during the middle of the day. The missed gears have happened on both the ride in and the ride home and only started after I changed to Honda Gold HP4S 10w30.
__________________
Never Trade the Thrills of Living for the Security of Existence.
Just to update this post, I just wanted to tell everyone that the Pennzoil I changed too after about 1500 miles ended up doing the same thing as the Rotella. After about 20 minutes, it wouldn't shift well. It would get stuck in "half gear" several times a ride.
I doubt I'm going to even bother having it tested. Sounds like I may be stuck having to change oil every 1500 to 2000 miles.
black771
What is your oil level?
My 599 wouldn't shift for s**t if it was at the full line. My 919 shifts great
with the oil level right on the lower line. I have never had any problems
with rotella.
I can't recall honestly. If I get a chance this evening, I'll check, but I'm pretty sure its full.
Its really not THAT big of a deal. I don't think I have a problem, but if someone said I have a trans issue and it would be $200 to fix it, I'd probably just live with it. As I'm sure has happened many times before, the initial excitement was short-lived. I may try a moto-specific oil just to see what happens though. As I stated in the initial post, I have had no issue with Rotella in any of my other bikes and honestly its the only oil I stock in bulk on my shelf other then one quart of Pennzoil for my leaky Jeep.
Black: Make sure it isn't overfull. 919s do strange things when someone overfills them. I purchased mine with more than six quarts in it.
One thing a centerstand is great for - making sure you get the oil level right.
Don't check the oil level on the centerstand, the bike needs to be level with both wheels on the ground. When on the c.s., the level will be read as lower than with both tires on the ground. The manual calls for 3.8 qt., I tried a full 4 once thinking it wasn't that much more and the shifting improved at the next change with 3.8.
I suspect that many 919 owners would have less missed shifts with adjustment of the shift lever and perhaps more conciencious technique then with a change in oil type or viscosity.
For example, the 919 has a habit of hitting a neutral between 5th and 6th if you have a lazy foot that didn't let the shifter completely return to the rest position after the shift to 5th. It took me a while to figure that out.
Lesson two for me. I have not had a single low gear miss-shift since I got new boots and adjusted the level to accommodate the thicker size. The new boot and position allows me to get a more assertive upshift than my old position and boots.
However, it's still closer than my idiot PO got. He figured the sightglass was to be used while the bike was on the kickstand.
Gawd, he musta had 3 gallons in the thing.
__________________
"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
That's definitely not my problem although I don't understand the concept of a sight window that requires you to have the bike in a non-natural position to check it. Honestly, I do my oil changes myself and try my best to hold the bike up while I check the window. Its harder then it sounds and I feel VERY unstable when I do it. My wife isn't tall enough or comfortable enough to hold the bike up for me to check it.
That said, I measure with a measuring cup the oil that I put in and only double check with the site window.
I suspect that many 919 owners would have less missed shifts with adjustment of the shift lever and perhaps more conciencious technique then with a change in oil type or viscosity.
For example, the 919 has a habit of hitting a neutral between 5th and 6th if you have a lazy foot that didn't let the shifter completely return to the rest position after the shift to 5th. It took me a while to figure that out.
Lesson two for me. I have not had a single low gear miss-shift since I got new boots and adjusted the level to accommodate the thicker size. The new boot and position allows me to get a more assertive upshift than my old position and boots.
100% of my botched shifts are 110 % attributable to me and me alone.
Once I realized that and confronted it, I got serious about technique.
One's footwear is a factor, that is for sure, but it can be accounted for by technique.
Soft boots need some boot "preload" just like the shift lever does.
I shift as if I'm not going to use the clutch, but, I do use the clutch. It eliminated any tendency to mis-shift. This technique includes a SLIGHT pre-loading of the shifter, with a well-timed chop-the-throttle with a firm click-the-shifter.
I shift as if I'm not going to use the clutch, but, I do use the clutch. It eliminated any tendency to mis-shift. This technique includes a SLIGHT pre-loading of the shifter, with a well-timed chop-the-throttle with a firm click-the-shifter.
My track technique is similar.
But I leave the throttle pinned and just dab the clutch a bit.
My shift points are around 9500 RPM and the engine never hits the limiter.
(9500 actual as indicated by 9800 on the tach face, noting I had my tacho proofed when the dyno work was done.)
change oil twice a year usually at 4000 mile mark. used rotella 5/40 for 2 seasons,,this season used valvoline 10/40 for motorcycles...its sold everywhere easy to find and worked great as in all the different oils i used in the past 40 years....i did feel the 5/40 rotella in the 919 when hot out wasnt a good fit......as far as missed shifts most or all are the riders fault with toe not completely under shifter...shifter sliding down side of toe or boot..moving shifter half way.......ya using oil is good not using oil is bad..its real simple
__________________
dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
That's definitely not my problem although I don't understand the concept of a sight window that requires you to have the bike in a non-natural position to check it. Honestly, I do my oil changes myself and try my best to hold the bike up while I check the window. Its harder then it sounds and I feel VERY unstable when I do it. My wife isn't tall enough or comfortable enough to hold the bike up for me to check it.
That said, I measure with a measuring cup the oil that I put in and only double check with the site window.
I have to have my wife stand on cinderblocks if i want her to be able to hold it up straight. I have a mirror on a stick that i use for oil checks so I can stand with the bike up and then have a look.
If you are having trouble checking the sight glass buy a cheap mirror and prop it up against a bench or similar with the mirror leaning slightly back. Sitting on the bike align the bike with the mirror and you can easily see your sight glass and oil.
Alternatively if you place a brick or similar front and rear of the rear tyre and a strap around the bars to a rafter you can kneel and carefully pull the bike upright to check the glass. The bricks reduce help it stay stable and if you pull it over the strap will stop it falling.
When I change the oil, I check by kneeling and grab the throttle with my left and and right foot peg with my right. Pull it off the sidestand and check the level. Just make sure it's firmly on the sidestand when you set it down.
I suspect that many 919 owners would have less missed shifts with adjustment of the shift lever and perhaps more conciencious technique then with a change in oil type or viscosity.
For example, the 919 has a habit of hitting a neutral between 5th and 6th if you have a lazy foot that didn't let the shifter completely return to the rest position after the shift to 5th. It took me a while to figure that out.
Lesson two for me. I have not had a single low gear miss-shift since I got new boots and adjusted the level to accommodate the thicker size. The new boot and position allows me to get a more assertive upshift than my old position and boots.
Ottawa I have to agree and disagree with you. My shifts were spot on before I went to the 10w30 Synthetic, never missed one except for when I first bought the bike. At that time I had no idea what oil was used by the PO. No when the temps are in range for 10w30 then all is well. As soon as it gets too warm for it then I start to miss shifts. I’m also sure that some people out there are NOT shifting properly or are very gingerly with it. I have experimented with shifting when out riding and I know what works best on my bike. When I had the Honda HP4 10w40 in it I never ONCE missed going into 6th. In the spring I am going to go back to 10w40 and we will see what happens. The winter riding around here should be prime Temperature range for the 10w30 so I am not going to change it. In fact I am taking her out later today and tomorrow the temps are in the 50s to 60s let’s see how she does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44
100% of my botched shifts are 110 % attributable to me and me alone.
Once I realized that and confronted it, I got serious about technique.
One's footwear is a factor, that is for sure, but it can be accounted for by technique.
Soft boots need some boot "preload" just like the shift lever does.
At first I thought it was me and me alone and I was getting pissed at myself. like pullover and yell atmyself to get my head in the game type pissed. But when I was making a conscience effort to shift properly and it still missed going into 6th I knew it was no longer me. I have steel tip boots and I always preload the lever. Now again whether I blip the throttle or actual pull in the clutch it will shift fine if I am in normal operating temps for the 30weight. If I go outside of those temps even preloading it will still miss 6th a lot, not all of the time but a lot of the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart
I shift as if I'm not going to use the clutch, but, I do use the clutch. It eliminated any tendency to mis-shift. This technique includes a SLIGHT pre-loading of the shifter, with a well-timed chop-the-throttle with a firm click-the-shifter.
This is what I do when I use the clutch other wise I tend to blip the throttle to upshift now.
Again, it happened when I first got the bike and had no idea what oil the PO used. It happened the three times I rode it before I changed the oil for the first time. I started doing all my OCs with Honda HP4 10w40 (not trying to start which oil is best thread but this is what I use) and not one missed gear in 6,000+mi of riding and useing the 10w40. Last oil change I switched to Honda HP4 Gold Full Sythetic 10w30 (all they had) and I started to miss 6th and some times going down from 3rd to 2nd, but that is very rare, where as the missed 6th is very common with the 10w30.
__________________
Never Trade the Thrills of Living for the Security of Existence.
Maybe adjust a few things again..shift.lever ...clutch lever,,,and start over....i seen studys where honda oil finished dead last even against standard sae oils.....if it keeps happening theres a problem with driver or bike....oil has nothomg to do with it
__________________
dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
Well thank you everyone for the feedback. Despite all the good information here, I can say without a doubt my 919 is sensitive to what oil is in the case. I know it sounds silly and I'm putting what little credibility I have on the line, but I can "feel" it with how it revs, shifts, the vibration, the sound, everything. I know, I know, call me crazy if you must.
No I can't tell what color car drove by just by listening however. I'm working on that one yet.
I've only used Honda GN4 10-40 in mine. Has anyone used this and then tried something else that was better or worse as far as shifting goes? BTW, I have not had any issues shifting.
^ Notta clue.... i ride the piss out of it, always ran rotella T 15w 40... any shifting issues were always my fault (read lazy shift) and all shifting issues were cured by moving the shift lever down by ~ 3/8ths of an inch.
Keep in mind that an improperly indexed spline attachment on the gearbox shifter shaft can cause real grief.
Ideally, one wants the centrelines of the two "arms" to be parallel. The "arms" being :
1 the short bit that spline mounts to the gearbox shifter shaft.
2 the line drawn between the centrelines of the lever pivot and the heim joint of the cross shaft.
Rotella T6 5W40 is the superior selection of the JASO labelled Rotellas.
Rotella Triple Protection is a step down from T6, but it is still a JASO labelled oil and is available in 15W40.
Gonna weigh in here. I have spent countless hours researching oils. Now rotella is the best bang for your buck in the shared sump bikes. The t-6 however to meet the diesel manufactures specs has lowered their levels of zddp so it doesn't prematurely kill the particulate filters and the exhaust burners etc.
Now the rotella t-5 didn't adjust any of their zddp levels. That line of oil is still loaded with it. Shell started the new line(t-6) to accommodate the new regulations and left the t-5 alone.
They are both great oils and your bike will live a long happy life with either,I just figured I would inform the perhaps less informed members.
Now for mobil 1. They keep changing their formulation and although the bottle is labelled synthetic,they are using the less expensive group 3(hydrocracked conventional) instead of the more expensive and better group 4 basestock. Amsoil and royal purple use a group 4 for their motorcycle specific oils and red line uses a group 5.
Now I'm not saying mobil 1 isn't good oil. On the contrary. I have 3 cases of the v-twin(Harley) and the other stuff(Honda) and use them. I also have 4 cases of amsoil in both motorcycle varieties. But in both brands,they make my bikes sound like the valvetrain has a can of marbles bouncing around in there. Rotella and red-line are the only 2 brands that ever had an effect on the noise,made the bike run more quiet.
Synthetic will resist thermal breakdown for longer than conventional but as long as you are consistent with oil changes you don't need synthetic.
I sent 2 samples to blackstone and in my Harley they told me a safe oci for amsoil was 5000 miles,safe for conventional(penzzoil in my case) was 3000 miles. In a liquid cooled bike you can stretch the oil changes out a bit longer because heat is controlled better.
When I change the oil, I check by kneeling and grab the throttle with my left and and right foot peg with my right. Pull it off the sidestand and check the level. Just make sure it's firmly on the sidestand when you set it down.
i kneel. on left knee..holding throttle and brake with right hand and pull tilt bike to balance point...with brake on bike wont roll ....always have your right knee and left hand if you needed to push it back,,,,real simple
__________________
dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
"Security is mostly a superstition, it does not exist in nature: avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright being exposed. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."-Helen Keller
Shreddin: Interesting post on the difference between T5 and T6. Only thing is, I see Triple Protection and T6 everywhere but T5 isn't as common...
ZDDP is the anti-wear additive correct? The more you have the longer you can go between OCIs. In a nutshell at least
Yes. It's anti wear. It's a combination of zinc and phosphorus. It's a sacrificial layer. As the oil cools on the parts zddp coats the parts,so at start up you get no metal on metal,the zddp wears away instead.
Now the con to zddp is that it clogs up catalytic converters,shortening their lifespans,so the EPA has limited the amount of zddp that is allowed in oil. Now some brands of oil have chosen to keep a line of oils high in zddp,but by doing so,they lose their warrantee approved rating.
The t-6 was formulated for the new restrictions for diesel exhaust,hence the lower zddp levels.
Now if you see oils labelled for classic cars and older hot rods,they are exempt because they have no catalytic converters.
Some manufactures now add molybdenum disulfide to oil. That's what's in oils stamped resource conserving or energy conserving. That stuff is unreal in it's friction modifying ability however shared sump bikes cannot have that additive,or your clutch is pooched.
Now almost all oils with a Xw-30/Xw-20 rating will have moly in them. Very few exceptions.
I have found the amsoil 4 stroke oil is fine for wet clutches. It's a 0w-40. It pumps faster than a 10w-40 in cooler weather and I was using it in my yamaha in spring and fall,when the oil starts off a bit thicker and you want it to pump quicker.
So if you have a bike with cats the t-6 is a better choice,your cat will last longer,but if you have straight pipes a higher zddp level would prolong the life of the moving parts.
Ya. I know. I got waaaaaaay too much time on my hands. Winters are long here.
If anyone has any oil questions I am happy to help. Pm me,or start a thread.
I have no favorite oil,I go by the numbers,I don't drink the "cool aid" or whatever they say about the synthetic debate. So the mobil 1 fans or amsoil fans may not like my answers,their minds are already made up. But my years drag racing my mustang and serious mudding. Ripping down old chev 350s have made me draw my own conclusions. And I am cheap. I don't want to spend more than I have to to achieve the same result.
Now I do use amsoil,royal purple,mobil 1 and red line. All have their own pro's and cons.
From me you will get unbiased opinion,rooted from experience. If I don't know an answer I am not going to bull my way thru it and spread incorrect information. I am an enthusiast,bikes,cars,trucks,all cost money. I try to spend wisely.
Shreddin: Interesting post on the difference between T5 and T6. Only thing is, I see Triple Protection and T6 everywhere but T5 isn't as common...
ZDDP is the anti-wear additive correct? The more you have the longer you can go between OCIs. In a nutshell at least
Oh. The oci. Well you will deplete the TBN before you deplete the anti wear agents usually. TBN basically defines how long the oil can go before it become acidic,and starts etching metal parts and eating thru gaskets. Higher TBN=longer it resists acidity.
The oils that claim 25000 miles before needing changed have a very high TBN number,but when compared to their regular drain counterparts the anti-wear agents and friction modifier levels aren't that much higher.
The extended drain stuff is just too much of a risk in my opinion. Oil is cheap. Find other ways to save money. New oil is better then used oil. Unless you spend big bucks on by-pass oil filter systems and get regular used oil analysis done it,in my opinion,isn't worth it.
On big rigs yes these long drain oils help the bottom line. But they have engineered by pass filtration systems and get analysis done. And it's worth the added expense. But in a car or bike,by the time you cost factor in all this stuff you could have changed the oil,twice.
Get what I mean.
my wife's jetta says to change the oil every 10k miles. while 10k is a big number for me, it's what i go by since we use the factory oil. not gonna argue with vw, i have enough problems as it is with them being quirky.....
bmw IS 25.000.............919 8000......oil companys will tell ya 3000,,,,but if you drive it change more often ...wonder why.......motorcycle oil is made to SJ specs
__________________
dont need a bike to ride the fast lane
bmw IS 25.000.............919 8000......oil companys will tell ya 3000,,,,but if you drive it change more often ...wonder why.......motorcycle oil is made to SJ specs
Well that's sort of one of those conspiracy theories. I read somewhere that California is trying to pass legislation to make it illegal to change you oil at 3000 miles. Yet the quick lube places have the general population trained for that.
20 years ago oil wasn't all that great. Sludge was a major issue. Today's modern oils,even conventional will go much farther then the 3000 mile mark.
If your vehicle is under warrantee then follow their directions to the letter. Car companies will look for any excuse to get out of fixing their cars. After the warrantee period make an educated choice. Any modern brand will work,so why spend more than you have too.
Severe service is another story. Stop and go traffic. Short trips. Will contribute to the demise of the oil faster than sustained highway trips. If you have an oil life monitor just go with it.
. If you have an oil life monitor just go with it.
I always thought these just went by mileage, and are in no way monitoring the oil properties?
__________________
"A motorcycle is not just a two-wheeled car; the difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life."
Linear Mode
Chevy Camaro Forum
Ford Mustang Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum
Volkswagen Touareg Forum
Land Rover Defender Forum
