I did a quick search of the forum but didn't find much. I have a new '07 and have just hit 500 miles. I checked the speedometer against my GPS a couple of times and have discovered that the bike thinks it's going faster than it really is.
At 60 mph indicated on 919, the GPS shows 55.
Anyone tried to correct it with a SpeedoHealer or other such device? I'd love to hear details. I'm not losing sleep but would like better accuracy (and a correct odometer reading).
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambomonster
I did a quick search of the forum but didn't find much. I have a new '07 and have just hit 500 miles. I checked the speedometer against my GPS a couple of times and have discovered that the bike thinks it's going faster than it really is.
At 60 mph indicated on 919, the GPS shows 55.
Anyone tried to correct it with a SpeedoHealer or other such device? I'd love to hear details. I'm not losing sleep but would like better accuracy (and a correct odometer reading).
Let's get this out of the way first thing. Honda has been installing optimistic speedometers for at least 20 years, I guess to make the rider think he's going 100 when he's actually under 90. It's safer that way. The odometers, however, are much more accurate, on the order of one to three percent. I guess you have to decide which you want to be closer to right -- the speedo or the odo. Frankly, I want to know how far I've gone, not how fast I was going to get there.
You will undoubtedly get responses saying a 17 tooth countershaft sprocket brings the speedo down to where it should be, but then the odometer is off in the other direction.
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The SpeedoHealer sales pitch on their website states that by correcting the speedometer, the odometer will also be more accurate and therefore not show artificially high mileage, reduce resale value, blah blah, etc.
What evidence do you have that the odometer is much more accurate? Are they not linked electronically?
I read an explanation on another site that talked about manufacturers trying to build in a formula that accounts for different levels of tire wear (and therefore different circumference). That would seem contrary to any theory of using an "optimistic" mph reading for safety.
Use a speedo healer. All speedos seem to be off about 8-10% based on what I've seen in my riding career. This little electronic device goes in place between your speed sensor and the ECU and has a couple leads plugged into the Battery. Before installing it, find a stationary radar and check your error. Do it at a couple speeds. Find the % error and write this down. The instructions will have you set a dip switch on the device given the % error. I remember paying roughly $80 delivered for my ZX10R application. My system was +8% error. I checked my bike at 100mph. Now, after 4 years of operation my speedo is within 0.5%. I know when I did 151 on this thing, it was 151. I'm too much of a pussy to push it farther.
I did more research and although theories abound, no one seems to know why motorcycles have this common problem. Some say it's by design to avoid fines for overstating speed and others say it's a calculation based on average tire wear, bike setup, or other such. I don't know too many engineers who like programming inaccuracy on purpose, but who knows?
It begs the question why cars have accurate speedos...my last couple of 4-wheeled vehicles were dead on with the GPS.
Anyhow...I think I will get a SpeedoHealer as I like the idea of maximizing the accuracy of all readings. Thanks for the input.
Cars have the problem also. Just check your speed at stationary radar. That's it.
Personally, I'll always install a speedo healer on any electronic pickup bike I own from now on. Why mentally account when you have so damn many things to consider on a bike just to stay alive?
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i did a 120 mi ride with my gps going.... like you my 919's speedo is off about 8% ... that is it reads high.
the odo on the other hand is only off by about 1.8 to 2.2% .... the odo and the speedo get their information from the same source... you change that source... yes you might correct the speedo but you WILL make the odo inaccurate.
Yep thanks, I've got it now. I just re-read the FAQ page on the SpeedoHealer site. A 100% accurate speedometer calibration will cause the odometer to be slightly low. So it's the lessor of two evils (what Mr. Tharalson said to begin with - thank you sir).
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambomonster
The SpeedoHealer sales pitch on their website states that by correcting the speedometer, the odometer will also be more accurate and therefore not show artificially high mileage, reduce resale value, blah blah, etc.
What evidence do you have that the odometer is much more accurate? Are they not linked electronically?
They are driven by the same signal, but the processing from raw signal to needle deflection and mileage readout are entirely separate, although in the same IC. I know the accuracy of the odometer by a fortuitous happenstance -- I came upon a "speedo check" on hwy 395 that was 20 miles long, so I reset my trip meter and paid attention to the markers. At the end of the 20 miles my trip meter read 20.1 & 1/2 ... an error of 0.75%. I can live with that. This also explains why speedohealer equipped bikes suddenly start getting lower mileage by an average amount corresponding pretty closely to the percentage of adjustment done by the 'healer.
As I have already stated, I much prefer an accurate ODO: in the long run I don't much care what the speedo says, but knowing how far you've gone can be vital, particularly if you're looking for "At 102.3 miles turn right on FR 227 and go ..." when the sign for FR 227 is a white post 2 inches wide and 3 feet tall that has seen better days. Concentrating to find it for 10 miles can really take it out of you! For a quarter mile? No problem. Worse, trying to find it when it's 8.5 miles behind you already is a real study in futility.
Last point -- if I'm going 151 MPH on a public street I've got way too many more important things to do than try to read "151" amongst that tightly packed bunch of numbers on the speedo face.
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Last point -- if I'm going 151 MPH on a public street I've got way too many more important things to do than try to read "151" amongst that tightly packed bunch of numbers on the speedo face.
Rob
Highway 101, rob. You're familiar with that road, are you not? Hardly a public "street" You want to know the traffic conditions at the time I did that speed or you want to draw your own mental pic?(oops, you already did that)
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Originally Posted by Bigdaa
Highway 101, rob. You're familiar with that road, are you not? Hardly a public "street" You want to know the traffic conditions at the time I did that speed or you want to draw your own mental pic?(oops, you already did that)
I have quite a vivid picture already. It's about the same as doing a plug chop on a Lavera Jota 1200XR on Pacific Coast Highway at a radar clocked (by three guns held by two Costa Mesa and one Huntington Beach PD) 158 miles per hour. Did I even glance at the speedo? No chance. Too busy. Long story with a happy ending.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Everybody riding wants to know how fast they are going, unless they are on the track where the point is winning. I do know from experience the accelerated rate of things fucking up at speed, though, as many of us who have ridden for a while do. In straight line riding, it's different taking a 1/4 second glance than it is when leaning into a sweeper at appx 120, (southbound Gaviota left up hill sweeper. you know this one I bet)
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Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaa
Everybody riding wants to know how fast they are going
I must be the exception to the rule -- how fast I'm going is of academic interest only. It may be the 150,000 miles I rode without a speedo (on purpose, my XT500 cafe racer), and the effect it had on honing my speed sense. That and racing where the tach is the only distraction. I've already given my take on the importance (or lack thereof) of the speedo.
Quote:
it's different taking a 1/4 second glance than it is when leaning into a sweeper at appx 120
That's the last place I'd do that! I am getting plenty of feedback from the bike -- knowing how fast I'm going doesn't advance my knowledge or assist in handling any situation. It's just a distraction.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
I do take it you are familiar with Southbound 101 from the 1 junction through to Mariposa Reina? Some of the windiest sheatzu with those s's at the tunnel and the excellent cop trap at the rest stop. God I love that little stretch!
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I have a speedo healer on my 919. It works perfect. I want to know how fast I'm going. I don't care how far I've gone. I always end up at home. On an analog speedo, it's not too bad, you just look 1/4 inch behind the needle. That gets you pretty close at 60=mph. The digis get more complex. You have to do math. Just no fun.
I think the Jap companies have optimist speedos because "fast bikes" sell.
Recently met a young guy that was proud to say he had a GSXR6 that'd do 175, or some such crazy thing. That bike wouldn't do 175 if it was shot out of a cannon. If Suzie's bike will do 175, Yammie sure as shooting better be able to show 175 on it's speedo also, or all the dim bulbs are going to buy the Suz.
If you ever want to know why a profit driven entity ever does anything, the answer is simple. Money.
KTMs speedos are correct. And if it is off, you can reprogram it to be correct. No speedo healer necessary.
The rag mag said my 04 ZX10R would do 104 in 1st. What they didn't say, because they are douchebags is that yes, it would do that INDICATED. Fucking retards. Well, the 04 ZX10R will do 96 in 1st gear. Very impressive, INDEED, but these guys in the mags are fags(not that there is anything wrong with that)
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I did a quick search of the forum but didn't find much. I have a new '07 and have just hit 500 miles. I checked the speedometer against my GPS a couple of times and have discovered that the bike thinks it's going faster than it really is.
At 60 mph indicated on 919, the GPS shows 55.
Anyone tried to correct it with a SpeedoHealer or other such device? I'd love to hear details. I'm not losing sleep but would like better accuracy (and a correct odometer reading).
Here's what my situation was.
I changed gearing to 16/45.
I measured my tire and calculated that at 4090 RPM in 6th, the bike would be doing 100 kph (about 62 mph)
I proofed my tachometer and found it was showing 4200 RPM while actually the engine was at 4090 RPM (used my PC3 patched to a laptop).
Rode the bike and found that at a tach indicated 4200 RPM, the speedo was reading 110 kph, in other words out quite a bit.
I then set up the SpeedoHealer to correct the speedo so it reads 100 kph at the tach indicated 4200 RPM, which is when the engine is really doing 4090 RPM, and in 6th gear, with my gearing and tire, the bike is actually doing 100 kph.
My overall speedo error was nominally half gearing and half speedo.
So now, when I'm doing steady state highway mileage, I know just how much over the posted speed limit I really am.
But when I do Track Days, I tape over the speedo face, simply not wanting such a useless distraction when on the track at speed.
Stock odometer is pretty accurate, as has been stated. I rode today and reset both the trip and GPS before leaving. At the end of the ride I have the following results:
Trip odometer shows 32.7
GPS total miles shows 31.97
Call me irresponsible (umongst allot of other 'flowery' things) but, man........I just could never put up much concern over the odo being off. I really do want to know exactly, precisely how fast I am going at that moment the man guns me. I have been radar'd and laser'd so many times I feel like a bag of Haggis.
I have a need to know, being the speeder that I am. I started out at age 15 1/2 with my first speeding ticket in 1971 on my way to High School on my CL350 Honda. Have been speeding ever since.
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Call me irresponsible (umongst allot of other 'flowery' things) but, man........I just could never put up much concern over the odo being off. I really do want to know exactly, precisely how fast I am going at that moment the man guns me. I have been radar'd and laser'd so many times I feel like a bag of Haggis.
I have a need to know, being the speeder that I am. I started out at age 15 1/2 with my first speeding ticket in 1971 on my way to High School on my CL350 Honda. Have been speeding ever since.
Mr. Tharalson is indeed most correct--again, thank you sir!
As he pointed out, the speedo and odometer do use the same signal--if you employ any measure to correct the optimistic speedo (sprocket change or Speedo-Healer), the odometer will then be pessimistic by a similar %.
I use a Speedo-Healer to get an accurate MPH readout because my 9'er was about 9-10% optimistic. Street traffic around here usually runs around 5-8 MPH over the limit for 35-45 MPH roads, and highway traffic routinely runs 7-15 MPH over. It's of course safer to match the prevailing speed (or at least close to it), and I was finding on the 9'er that, even when running 5MPH over the posted limit (as indicated on the speedo), I was still not "running with the big dogs". Further, "revenue enhancement" by strict enforcement of speed limits is a BIG source of income for the police around here, so I agree with and sympathize with Bigdaa: having a demonstrably accurate speedo allows me to pick the lesser of two evils with confidence in any situation.
A GPS is just the ticket for knowing accurate trip distances or calculating true gas mileage.....
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I joined this forum just to point out some things I have found:
1. The speedo of the 919 is off.
2. The Odometer of the 919 is ALSO off.
Here is my test:
I just purchased this bike 3 days ago. Yesterday I drove it from LA to San Francisco. I was following my girlfriend in her 2004 Ford Focus the ENTIRE way. When I noticed that the speedo was off I had her pull off to a gas-sation. We both reset our tripometers at that station. I then I asked her to go EXACTLY 70 MPH on cruise control, which she did for the rest of the trip.
SPEEDOMETER:
At her indicated 70MPH the 919 read 78 MPH. so... 78 mph 919 / 70 mph actual = 1.1143 or 11.43% off.
ODOMETER/TRIPOMETER:
At her indicated 219.9 miles the 919 read 235.0 miles. so... 235.0 miles 919 / 219.9 actual miles = 1.0687 or 6.87% off.
As with any test, the larger your test sample (more miles in this case) the more accurate your result will be. So, driving a motorcycle 300 miles in a test would give you much better results than driving only 30 miles.
One thing I don't quite understand is why the odometer/tripometer would be any less off than the speedometer. As already pointed out, the only conclusion I can draw from it is that the speedo is intentionally "optomistic", but that leaves the question: why then also have the odometer off?
Example: jim rides down the freeway at a steady 70 mph for exactly an hour. When he looks at his 919 odometer he doesn't want to see 62 miles, he wants to see 70.
My best guess as to why the odometer is off as well? Honda "split the difference" to cover their asses. in the above example: Jim would be less likely to question his odometer if it read 65 miles instead of 62.
now I have a new question:
Assuming the 919 can power-wheelie w/ the stock sprocket configuration
(haven't found a closed parking lot to confirm that yet, also not familiar enough to the bike to try it yet)
Can the 919 still power-wheelie w/ an extra tooth on the front sprocket?
Thanks for the info, Im 145 lbs so maybe that will help. I did a little more reading and am most likely going to go w/ a 17/44 set-up...won't quite fix the speedo, but wont quite lose much zippiness.
Hey joshpit welcome to the place. I've got four Honda motorcycles, and have owned a few more than that, hence the name. They all read high on MPH, but they are for the most part fairly accurate on the odo. Your bike got stock sprockets? How about tire wear? It can play a major role in both the speed and odo numbers.
For example, if your tire is worn the circumference is less. For every revolution the tire covers less distance than when new. Same for tires that are different than the originals. Not all tires with the same markings are the same circumference. Sidewall depth, tire size and width can have different measurements around the tire, but the speedo and odo are doing the math based on the original numbers. Multiply that out over time and the numbers can get skewed.
Throw cornering into the mix and the distance really gets messed up. Car tires stay flat on the surface compared to a bike tire when cornering. Your bike thinks you are covering the distance "straight up". The outer portion of the tire is a smaller circumference, so you travel less distance for one wheel revolution.
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this is also assuming that the focus is entirely accurate and lets be realistic, its a ford... lol
jokes aside, everything will be slightly off to some degree or another. i've seen based on my commuting on the 919 that the mph is off, but the odo tends to be relatively accurate (its actually pretty close so long as you stay away from twisties lol). the 17/44 tooth setup makes the mph more accurate but the odo becomes ever so slightly skewed (which is fine for me atleast). and yes the 17/44 is a great combo for commuting/twisties/slabbing. you can drop-clutch a wheelie in 1st, cant do it in second with this set up (realistically). you can also power wheelie in 1st if you're moving along with high rpms and jerk the throttle plus yank on the bars. if you're good you might be able to clutch into 2nd (i havent tried so i dont know). thats the basis of my experience running the 17/44. love the set up, love the power delivery as well.
thanks for the info guys, lots of things to cinsider. Re: the odometer.... this was all freeway mileage, so twisting in turns doesn't come into play. Tires are good on tread. (i'll have to go check the size next time I'm in the garage). The focus has been a great little car and seems to be very accurate. as far as determining the mph and odometer differences i don't think it would matter if the focus was off on one so long as the other reflected the same. example: if the odometer and the speedometer on the focus were equally wrong, then it would still tell the truth between the 919 odometer and speed. anyhow, enough with that... just thought I'd post my findings.
Looking forward to getting the new chain and sprockets, hoping to do the install myself... just need to go get myself one of those pit-stand things (is that the technical name?)
thanks for the welcome, this site has a whole bunch to offer... already cracking up how my passenger side peg screw is missing.
I fail to understand people obsession with correction a slightly optimistic speedo - every vehicle I have ever owned has read a bit high - the factories set them that way.
Measuring it against a car is a waste of time unless the cars speedo has been verified first.
Once you have a idea where you vehicle is you just ride accordingly. The people I know who have spent $ on a healer all still speed - say they used to sit on 110kms per when they were really only doing 103, still sit on 110 but are now actually going faster and more prone to getting copped.
that ends up being a 1.29 mph difference... maybe I miss-read the guage all the times i checked... plus, w/ a speedo that goes to 170? there isn't much room between the speeds. haha. Thanks for the info.
I changed gearing to 16/45.
I measured my tire and calculated that at 4090 RPM in 6th, the bike would be doing 100 kph (about 62 mph)
I proofed my tachometer and found it was showing 4200 RPM while actually the engine was at 4090 RPM (used my PC3 patched to a laptop).
Rode the bike and found that at a tach indicated 4200 RPM, the speedo was reading 110 kph, in other words out quite a bit.
I then set up the SpeedoHealer to correct the speedo so it reads 100 kph at the tach indicated 4200 RPM, which is when the engine is really doing 4090 RPM, and in 6th gear, with my gearing and tire, the bike is actually doing 100 kph.
My overall speedo error was nominally half gearing and half speedo.
So now, when I'm doing steady state highway mileage, I know just how much over the posted speed limit I really am.
But when I do Track Days, I tape over the speedo face, simply not wanting such a useless distraction when on the track at speed.
The above method is very accurate.
The local shop I go to wanted to know how well it worked out, so when I had some dyno runs done, they used the dyno to check out my speedo.
It was exactly 100 kph @ tacho indicated 4200 with the dyno pickup showing an actual 4090 engine RPM. We all had a really good laugh.
now I have a new question:
Assuming the 919 can power-wheelie w/ the stock sprocket configuration
(haven't found a closed parking lot to confirm that yet, also not familiar enough to the bike to try it yet)
Can the 919 still power-wheelie w/ an extra tooth on the front sprocket?
I freakin' love it! You'll fit in here real good!
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919 speedometer error question
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