Pilot Road 2CT report

[robtharalson]

Hi there. If you aren't already aware, i've been running Pilot Roads for the last 50,000 miles on my stock '02 and found them to posess a good combination of commuting wear, wet grip, and canyon carving. On average I get 13 to 15K from a front, and 10 to 12K from a rear. Well, I decided to spoon a Road 2CT on the rear this time just to see what all the hoopla was about, and while hopefully there won't be much information about wear for quite a while, and wet traction will have to wait for the next rainy season, I thought you'd like a report on comparative grip and manners.
Mounting and balancing --
As regards their stiffness they feel about the same as the Road when levering them on the rim, being sure to align the bead bargraph with the valve stem. However, I got a bit of a surprise when balancing. Once beaded up nice and even, I put it on my 25 year old "temporary" truing stand and try as I might couldn't find a heavy spot! (I long ago checked the balance of the bare wheel and couldn't find a heavy spot on it either.) Even went so far as to cut a tiny corner from a tape weight, about 1/32 ounce, and randomly sticking it to the rim -- it shot to the low point every time. Cool!
Breaking it in --
Didn't seem to need it. I finished reinstalling it too late Saturday night to test ride it, so waited for the ride down to the group ride meeting place the next morning for the initial scuffing. Took it easy for the first couple corners while feeling for slip, felt none, so started to push it harder, using standard endurance racing "first lap after the tire change" instincts: no slip at all! By the 6th corner was pitching it into corners and tagging the pegs. That's less than 1/2 mile of break in. If you don't have racing experience I recommend sneaking up on the limit a bit more slowly. Again, cool!
Canyon carving --
The first thing I noticed was the transition from upright to full lean felt more confidence inspiring. The Road usually takes a couple milliseconds to steady down in a quick transition: pretty typical of a firm rubber compound, and very familiar from endurance racing hots (hard compound for ambient temperatures above 32 degrees C). Obviously, I had been compensating for this, and now found I didn't have to. With the faster transitions, I started tagging the pegs regularly, so had to do the kill steer (tiny nudge on the bars stopping the lean roll in) sooner, and hang off a bit more. Also, the shudder in the seat caused by Schallamach standing waves on the tread initiated considerably later, at greater lean angles, and at greater throttle twist when exiting than with the Road -- the softer compound damps these more effectively, so the feel when leaned to the edge is a subtly smoother. It was so smooth that I stopped using the rear brake to modulate power delivery(Something I do quite often. I long ago disconnected the rear brake light switch to keep from distracting riders behind me.) I've given the little Michelin guys on the edge of the tread haircuts, and expect to scuff them off completely soon.
Sliding --
Don't know yet. It was coupled up at loads that would have the Road breaking away. I'll keep you posted.
General feel --
My initial impression is in the twisties, other than at full honk it feels about the same as regards stiffness and bump transmission. It does, however, feel a bit nervous on the freeway, probably due to the tread pattern being closer to aligned with the direction of travel than the Road. This may change as it beds in.

That's all I have for now, and it may be worn out before the next rainy season, so don't expect much feedback on this for a while.

Rob

[SV650s]

Nice write-up Rob.

[james_kraska]

...so for the price difference, would you do it again?

[robtharalson]

Originally Posted by james_kraska

...so for the price difference, would you do it again?

Absolutely, depending on how long it lasts considering my 105 mile a day commute. The confidence in corners isn't quite what gumball slicks give, but they are the best street tires I've run (Haven't, and won't, run Pilot Powers). Remember I live on a twisty road.

Rob

[xrmikey]

See.....What did I tell ya....

[brevity]

Thanks for that excellent report, Rob.

Pinging RC90! Get us a good deal!

[smrookie]

Originally Posted by robtharalson

Absolutely, depending on how long it lasts considering my 105 mile a day commute. The confidence in corners isn't quite what gumball slicks give, but they are the best street tires I've run (Haven't, and won't, run Pilot Powers). Remember I live on a twisty road.

Rob

Hey Rob, how many miles are you expecting to get out of them?

[robtharalson]

Originally Posted by smrookie

Hey Rob, how many miles are you expecting to get out of them?

The loaded question.
If the center compound is about the same as the Road it should give similar mileage commuting == about 10 to 12 K. If this proves true it should be close to worn out in 5 to 6 months -- about the beginning of the rainy season around here. Typical. At least it will be in good condition for the entire stretch of the prime riding season, and a lot of group rides. Works for me.

Rob

[Simpson]

Thanks for the report. Be my next set of tires for the 919.

[robtharalson]

Just a quick note.
After 800 miles, about 150 of which is twisties and the rest commuting, I thought you would like to hear the latest about the rear CT2.
The wear in the center is negligable, maybe 1/2 mm or less. The margins are another matter -- there is significant rounding of the leading edges of the tread grooves, about 4 to 5 mm, indicating I'm accelerating out of corners harder than I did with the Road, and the front (still a Road) is showing quite a bit of surface shredding which never happened with the Road on the rear. Also, I'm carrying at least 500 rpm more in corners, and sometimes a higher gear, but the seat of the pants feel tells me it's more planted. Still haven't slid it yet: the front is the limiting factor now, and while sliding the rear is a non event, losing the front anywhere but a track is not advisable!
Suffice it to say I'm having a blast with all the extra traction, and expect to wear out the margins before the center. Haven't done that in a while.
I'll keep you posted.

Rob

[sugs]

Great, just what you needed, more traction. Like you weren't already fast enough with the road 2's. Sheesh.

[xrmikey]

I put on my new rear on Friday.
Rode it out Ortega & back today.
Scrubbed & ready to go.
But my Michelin dude is gone.
Man.....I love these tires!
Attachment 6312

[Simpson]

Scrubbing the michelin man off the side... hehe
That's funny, I like doing the same.

[robtharalson]

As you may already know, I put a 2CT on the rear but left the Road (!?) on the front, and while it wasn't necessarily a mistake, it was certainly a limiting factor to a good evaluation of the 2CT rear. As a matter of fact I had to drop the front tire pressure even lower than the 22 to 24 psi it normally had, as low as 19 psi, to build up enough heat in the carcass and keep it there. While that didn't cause any handling problems, it did increase the steering effort dramatically and wore out the tire from overheating and sliding by a factor of about three. In other words, it was gone in only 5,000 miles instead of the usual 15,000.

Well, in preperation for my first ride on Glendora Mountain road (GMR) Saturday, (see my latest post in the Periodic Ride thread), I went to Cycle Rider in Montclair and had them lever on a 120/70 - 17 Pilot Road 2CT for me. The gentleman replacing the tire commented on it's having been overheated, pointing to the blue discoloration inside.

The break in ride.
Initially, the break in consisted of 19 miles of freeway and surface streets to get to GMR, so most of the rubber was untouched. This didn't last long, about two corners once on the road, and the first thing I noticed was I was running wide in corners due to the moves I was used to making with the underpressured Road and its decidedly triangular wear. Once I made the mental adjustment necessary for the round profile it was deadly accurate in pointing where I wanted to go, and gave no indication of break in sliding or other misbehaviour. Within 5 corners (about 1/4 mile) I was trail braking right down to apexes, getting on the throttle much more than previously, and generally acting as if it had a couple hundred miles of break in under its belt instead of less than one. The confidence it inspired was truly astounding -- no matter what I did, and keep in mind I always try to be as smooth as possible and use late apexes commensurate with my "canyon lines" -- necessitating relatively hard cut ins, it was always right there for me. As my knowledge of the tire grew, I got more agressive on entrances until it was close to the moves possible on intermediate slicks. Trust me when I say I was having a ball exploring the considerable traction limits of this tire! Nothing I did upset it in the slightest -- most impressive.

Manners / handling.
This tire is completely transparent in use -- there are no artifacts of its profile or construction apparent in spirited riding at all. No little twitches or wiggles during multiple loads such as hard braking while arcing down to an apex or steering around a rock while accelerating out, no vagueness on load transitions, pavement seams, or even running through a wet patch while leaned way over. Even the nervous feel from the rear on the freeway I initially commented on is completely gone, implying it was an artifact of the mismatched tires rather than a fault with the rear. Steering effort is light without being twitchy, with plenty of feedback if you know what to feel for. As for its manners cold, when I started into the twisties it was already up to temperature so I can't say with any certainty, but if my experience with the rear is any indication it wll take maybe one corner to get full traction -- essentially no warm up will be required at all. In short, by far the best front tire for the street I've ever felt. Michelin certainly did their homework on this tire, and it shows. One thing: I still don't know what pressure they set when they mounted it up. I'll let you know as soon as I find my tire gauge

Wear.
No word on this, it has only 150 miles on it so far, but while the molding nubs on the sides are long gone (what a surprise), in the center they are still there and standing proud, so I'm anticipating very long life from my 105 mile a day commute.

Conclusions.
I wouldn't care if these were the most expensive tires by a factor of three -- my favorite skin is worth every penny. Mount up a set of these tires and know as close to perfection as you will ever experience.

Rob

[hasbeenracer]

Rob was riding like a bat outta hell!

[SV650s]

Another excellent product evaluation. Thanks Rob!

[bloaker]

I think I read in another thread the best way to test tires is to slam on the bakes as hard as you can in an inch of water, If you fall, bad tires!

[SV650s]

Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy

I think I read in another thread the best way to test tires is to slam on the bakes as hard as you can in an inch of water, If you fall, bad tires!

Yup... It happened to Pedrosa at Sachenring.

[robtharalson]

Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy

I think I read in another thread the best way to test tires is to slam on the bakes as hard as you can in an inch of water, If you fall, bad tires!

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and despite what I said in my post I strongly recommend a period of careful breaknig in and acclimation before trusting any new tire.

In my case, with extensive endurance racing experience and LOTS of Michelins under my bikes for many years I know what to expect and how to break them in while "going for it" without risking a fall. The report was absolutely factual and a reflection of the quality of the tires.

To anyone reading this -- Do as I say, not as I do. Unless you have the equivalent of my experience in this regard, in which case go for it.

Rob

[zookmor]

great write up i may try out the road 2s once my Strada rear wears out. I have been happy with the Strada thus far, but gladly try a new tire if someone of your caliber has nothing but good things to say about the tires.

[xrmikey]

Repeat post #5

[oak1971]

Looks Like I found my next set of tires. I have a pilot road out back and some weird ass dunlop enduro tire on the front. (not my idea the bike came that way)

[ultimatefighter34]

Wish I would have known all this B4 I put the Metler M3 on the back. After a month of use, they are still sliding around.

[robtharalson]

Well, I hear sliding is good training for marginal traction situations. Unfortunately, they will probably last a really really long time. You just can't win! Maybe with a lot of smoky burnouts ...

Sorry to hear of your situation.

Rob

[Sokali]

Has anyone run the Road 2CT and Power 2CT?

Just wondering what sets them apart besides thread wear.

Do the Powers stick better and warm up quicker?

[BikePilot]

Have you tried the Avon storms? I haven't tried the road 2's but found the old roads much to hard for my liking. I just had a pair of storms put on the 919 and really like them. Very sticky and very neutral handling, also less effected by tar strips and dirt than most other tires I've tried.

have fun

[djmell762]

michelins, the only thing the french do right, besides surrender.

[hoosier919]

Rob how is the 2 CT rear tire holding up? I am going to put on new tires next week and was thinking either the Michelins or the new Dunlop Roadsmart. Probably going with the Michelins though.

Anybody tried the new Dunlop yet?

[robtharalson]

Originally Posted by hoosier919

Rob how is the 2 CT rear tire holding up? I am going to put on new tires next week and was thinking either the Michelins or the new Dunlop Roadsmart. Probably going with the Michelins though.

Anybody tried the new Dunlop yet?

At just under 5,000 miles the rear is about 35 to 40% worn. If this keeps up it should go over 10,000 miles easily. Remember, this is measured at the center -- the margins of the tread are feathering nicely, and may be worn out all the way to the edge before the center is down to the wear bars.

Rob

[robtharalson]

The rear Road 2 was fit at 48,500 miles, and the odometer now shows 58,000 and change. Thought you'd like to see the wear remaining.

The tread depth 10mm from the center end of the tread is 2.6mm -- pretty astounding considering the 105 mile a day commute. At this rate Michelin could go broke waiting for me to buy a replacement! I anticipate 14,000 miles before spooning on another.
A detail shot of the edge.

It's showing significant feathering on the trailing side, and the leading side is rounded almost to the full depth of the tread groove. It's up for grabs which will be worn out first.

In case anyone is interested, it's sticking like industrial grade Velcro in the twisties of Malibu, and I finally have some information on it's manners while sliding -- the few times I've managed to break it loose, and it's usually initiated by running through dirt on the road, it gives so much warning that compensating for it is child's play. All this and as long as you don't pin the throttle coming out of the first two corners on ice cold tires, you'll be able to lean far enough to tag the pegs and know you will exit with a smile on your face. After that, go for it!

Unfortunately, I still don't have any information about it's manners in the wet, but as soon as it rains I'll let you know.

Michelin sure knows their stuff!

Rob

[JohnnyB]

Don't want to derail...but anybody used a Dunlop Qualifier front yet? I just bought one, haven't installed it yet.
I was thinking about mileage....but I said, heck I got a 2000 RC with 7,000 miles on it so mileage obviously isn't a big concern. I'll opt for grip and it will still last me two years
Any opinions on this tire?
JohnnyB

[lmtdgov]

With Rob and xrmikey vouching for these tires it's a no brainer. I'm ordering some tomorrow.

Thanks for the write up Rob.

[zookmor]

I got it as a rear tire after reading this thread, and have no complaints at all. Much better than the Pirelli Strada I previously had on the rear. I have just at 10k on my rear tire, and still not on the wear indicators yet. Probably got another 3k to go.

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Don't want to derail...but anybody used a Dunlop Qualifier front yet? I just bought one, haven't installed it yet.

My friend had a Qualifier on his rear when he got the bike, and squeezed 5.5k miles out of it before he had threads showing in the middle from a hard stop on a hot tire. The last 500 miles tore up the Qualifier. I have a Power 2ct on my front, and it is a great tire that sticks very well.

[lmtdgov]

Originally Posted by zookmor

I got it as a rear tire after reading this thread, and have no complaints at all. Much better than the Pirelli Strada I previously had on the rear. I have just at 10k on my rear tire, and still not on the wear indicators yet. Probably got another 3k to go

good to hear. What size rear did you get?

I think I'm nearing the last 1k on my Battlax BT021's. The rear is a 180/55 17r. It looked a bit bigger then other rears on 919's so I'm wondering if others are running 170s.

[Pacojerte]

Originally Posted by lmtdgov

good to hear. What size rear did you get?

I think I'm nearing the last 1k on my Battlax BT021's. The rear is a 180/55 17r. It looked a bit bigger then other rears on 919's so I'm wondering if others are running 170s.

all the 919's use 180's on the rear... unless someone put something different... i put a 190 once and didnt like it... but tk919 put a 190 and loved his... (but now he is back to a 180)

[lmtdgov]

Thanks. I'll stick with the stock 180/55 and 120/70. I'm looking forward to trying out these tires. A friend has the same BT 021's as me and he didn't care for them. They seem fine for the most part, but I don't really have anything to compare them too.

[hawkeze]

I put the road IIs on, front and rear, about 3000 miles ago and I have no complaints.

[Gotsteam]

I have had my Pilot 2's for a few thousand miles now. Love them. My opinion is that you will not be able to push the tire to it's limits on the street. They perform well for me.

[Pvster]

hey rob, any update on your tires?

[Sniper]

Dunlop RoadSmarts on right now. Make the bike feel light when tossing it into a turn. Stick good, feel good. Lots of confidence. They are wearing nicely. I can't for the life of me figure out how Rob gets so many miles out of tires......