other than efficiency, why stainless brake lines? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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other than efficiency, why stainless brake lines?

serious question here, other than efficiency, why stainless brake lines?

Like I know the rubber expands and you loose some pressure and all that stuff, but if I can lock up my wheels with the stock system, why would I want to upgrade?

It seems like it would be easier to lock up

They certainly look cool and I'm sure would last longer.


I'm also bored and looking for upgrades LOL I've been thinking of getting a gun. We'll see.

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post #2 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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biggest advantage for me is better feel. with the rubber hoses, they give away as you apply more pressure to the brake until the lines dont swell anymore and then the brakes grab, sometimes too sudden/hard.

with steel brake lines, the response is immediate, more smooth, and better feedback.

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post #3 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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Depends on how hard you use your brakes. If you take it to the track and use them a LOT (which you should on a track), you'll probably get brake fade because of the heat and expanding rubber lines.

I got a bit crisper response and better feel in my brakes when putting on SS lines.

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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Personally, I think you get better feel with the SS lines. I don't have any science to back it up, but it seems you can brake until just that split second before they lock, and you can do it all day.

Just my $.02

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post #5 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:14 PM
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3 responses at 4:13 pm. Damn.

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post #6 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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hmmm. ok I'm sold. (much better idea then those LED's) What do you guys recommend?

The HEL ones look cool. any other suggestions? Or tips on demo/instal?

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post #7 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:38 PM
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G&J make some, too, you'll have to call them, don't think you can order on their site:

G&J

Spiegler makes them too.


I think the titanium bits would be sweet! Probably no better than the stainless banjos, except some weight savings that are completely not worth the cost

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post #8 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
biggest advantage for me is better feel. with the rubber hoses, they give away as you apply more pressure to the brake until the lines dont swell anymore and then the brakes grab, sometimes too sudden/hard.

with steel brake lines, the response is immediate, more smooth, and better feedback.
nail on the head... much better brake feel and less / no swell when heated up good.

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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
G&J make some, too, you'll have to call them, don't think you can order on their site:

G&J

Spiegler makes them too.


I think the titanium bits would be sweet! Probably no better than the stainless banjos, except some weight savings that are completely not worth the cost
Got GnJ lines they have been awesome, good quality no problems... other than my dumb ass breaking a banjo cus i was trying to spin it without loosening the banjo bolt.

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post #9 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 08:32 PM
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Some brake authorities state that 6-8 years is about the limit for "unlimited trust" service in the common rubber brake line as fitted to the 919, most cars, trucks, other bikes, etc., etc. Many (including not a few vehicle manufacturers) say 4 years.

The lines age from the inside out as well as outside in and as they age they candrop rubber particles into your brake fluid which can float to "interesting" places and gum up the works. They're also difficult to inspect - the outside appearance tells you nothing about the inside condition, and it's the inside that's most important.

The majority of quality SS line manufacturers (today - this didn't use to be true) say that barring abuse or mishandling, the line should last the life of the motorcycle. Replace it once, inspect it regularly (the semi-translucent nature and failure behavior of SS hoses that are DOT certified and properly made make inspection easy) and you'll be fine. Speigler's comment on it is this: "A generally unrecognized manufacturer’s recommendation is that all original rubber hydraulic hoses should be changed every four years to avoid failure. Spiegler brake lines are maintenance free and will provide reliable service for the life of your motorcycle." Other SS makers don't necessarily include the short lifespan comment, but they tell you the same thing about their products.

I replaced my 700's lines because I just didn't trust the originals at 25 years. That's a bit much to ask of any rubber. Took them off, cut them open, inside looked like crap and they should have been replaced for safety long ago. Lots of us have gotten lucky with old brake lines, but that doesn't mean we should press our luck. Brake lines will fail at the worst possible moment, we all know that. Better to jettison the old ones and fit new before it becomes a problem.

Better feel is another reason. No matter how good the rubber hose, by their very nature they expand a little whenever they conduct pressure. This means that some of the pressure you are applying is bleeding off into the hose expansion; it can also fractionally slow down the pressure front from the master to the calipers, but it is debatable whether this delay is humanly perceptable on most systems. The loss of feel due to the hoses expanding is not debatable, it is confirmed.

Bottom line: Safety, better feel, not expensive, problems have pretty much been ironed out (some OEM mainstream manufacturers are starting to include them as standard on sports and heavy duty models) - no good reason not to unless you are competing in concours events.

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, i think I'm gonna go with hel brake lines in the front since they have all the info. I also like the smoked/ semi dark coating. Not sure about the rear manufacturer. I'll call them sometime this week. All they should need is a picture of the rear setup and a hose length right?

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post #11 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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Hel already has the rear on the books. The reason I needed to send them the OEM lines was because they were offering a two-line front and one line rear solution. Rear was fine, I just dislike two-line fronts - so I did something about it.

I would have bought the rear at the same time (I think it's just $49) but I can't swing that and all the other stuff I had to buy and have had committed to buy since the accident. Should have the funds for that shortly, though.

I should be installing mine tomorrow.

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post #12 of 25 Old 02-19-2012, 10:02 PM
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GnJ lines have been matched to the 919 (i think it was rob who was the guinnie pig) your looking at like 80 bucks for a full 3 line set shipped from g n j.

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thx cb700s. It does look better!

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post #14 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 05:50 AM
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If SS is so much better shouldn't top end bikes come with them as standard? ...I only know of ducati doing it.

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post #15 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda ng gingsa View Post
If SS is so much better shouldn't top end bikes come with them as standard? ...I only know of ducati doing it.
Most current and recent Triumph, MV Augusta, Aprilia and some BMWs *do* come with stainless lines from the factory. So did most of the late Buells towards the end.

It was only relatively recently that some of the big issues with stainless lines were resolved and that delay has affected the use of them in stock machines. Stainless has one other issue that is rather difficult to overcome at companies - good rubber hoses at large OEM quantities cost literally pennies each while quantity manufacture doesn't reduce the cost of stainless all that much beyond what you or I pay for a set of them; IIRC Triumph has to charge $80 or so more per bike than they would without the stainless lines.

The rubber lines do work more or less well enough for most purposes and getting corporate bean counters at the larger makes to agree to a much more expensive (to them) component for what appears to be little market or performance justification on the OEM end is quite difficult. After all, most riders do not perceive stainless as a huge upgrade and it doesn't generally factor in to new bike purchases as a must have checklist item. Installing them won't make any difference in warranty service rates either since rubber lines usually last out the warranty just fine.

However, as traction control and ABS (let alone some of these early stability systems) systems become more commonplace, I expect to see more bikes come stock with SS lines as they are solutions to some problems encountered with such systems.

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post #16 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Nice explanations. ^^^^^mad smart^^^^ lol

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post #17 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by boogunoogun View Post
Nice explanations. ^^^^^mad smart^^^^ lol
No, just well researched. Been paying attention to stainless lines since the early 90s and watched them evolve from things generally not suitable for use on the street to 'if you're going to have the brake system open anyway, go ahead and throw some on for a low cost high return upgrade.'

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post #18 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 12:07 PM
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Just make sure you get the white lines with the purple fittings for the maximum braking performance


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post #19 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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went to go buy the HEL kit. They are not working today. Lucky people who get president's day off. There is always tomorrow

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post #20 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 01:09 PM
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post #21 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 01:12 PM
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Most non-retail ops are closed today. :P

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post #22 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 02:46 PM
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mmmm... purdy....

LDH, do you have the correct length for the rear line with 2BR exhaust installed? The 2BR single sided pipe is supposed to come with a shorter rear brake line (since you need to rotate the fitting a little bit to keep the hose from being too close to the pipe) but I never got one... it's been on my TODO list for a while.



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post #23 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 02:55 PM
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I can have Spiegler lines custom made to any length you want, but once you order that length it's your line!

All the fittings on Spiegler brake lines can be rotated for a perfect fit.

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post #24 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I can have Spiegler lines custom made to any length you want, but once you order that length it's your line!

All the fittings on Spiegler brake lines can be rotated for a perfect fit.
damnit LDH..... now i want spiegler lines in black with black banjo fittings..... and i already have ss lines! damn you......

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post #25 of 25 Old 02-20-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac
mmmm... purdy....

LDH, do you have the correct length for the rear line with 2BR exhaust installed? The 2BR single sided pipe is supposed to come with a shorter rear brake line (since you need to rotate the fitting a little bit to keep the hose from being too close to the pipe) but I never got one... it's been on my TODO list for a while.
SS line that I have is 395 mm from center to center

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