FIRST 20 MILES ON THE HAGON SHOCK - Page 2

mcromo44 · 08-07-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa919

While our tester is on vacation, I would like to discuss this shock and the lack of a remote reservoir.

AllanB has already demonstrated with his no-reservoir Ohlins that for typical street riding there does not appear to be noticeable performance impact.

On the other hand, we have other members stating that a reservoir is a must if the owner is doing hard, spirited rides or track days.

Also, Penske has said that they will not do a reservoir-less shock for the 919 (recently stated again in correspondence with a WT member). They state that it will not work well. Is it due to their shock design or high performance standards for their products?

I would like to hear opinions on the impact no-reservoir would have on performance for a 919 rider who wants relatively fade-free performance on long or spirited rides and who may do track days.

Lastly, is the heat generated by the y-pipes near the shock a factor in need of a reservoir?

I would love to get one of these Hagon's and beat it up for a while and then later get a Penske or Ohlins for a good three way comparison. If 20 members contribute $10 each to help cover my loss on the Hagon when I sell it, then I will do it, lol.

This shock has a lot of promise as an inexpensive solution for the majority of 919 riders. Exciting stuff!

I think that a reservoirless shock can be effective.
It's reduced level of adjustability should not be a street issue if it is pistoned and shimmed correctly for such use.

I don't get it with Penske, arctic got a 8900E from them and once it was sprung properly, was pretty happy with it. It had no reservoir and was adjustable length and he was running it longer than stock if memory serves me correctly.

The Y tube is a factor, but I think more so in very slow traffic. I did temperature checks on the shock during a track day before I put on the wrap, and it did not get very hot. With wrap on, the y tube is not an issue at all, and that is for sure.

**Ottawa919** · 08-07-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcromo44

I think that a reservoirless shock can be effective.
It's reduced level of adjustability should not be a street issue if it is pistoned and shimmed correctly for such use.

I don't get it with Penske, arctic got a 8900E from them and once it was sprung properly, was pretty happy with it. It had no reservoir and was adjustable length and he was running it longer than stock if memory serves me correctly.

The Y tube is a factor, but I think more so in very slow traffic. I did temperature checks on the shock during a track day before I put on the wrap, and it did not get very hot. With wrap on, the y tube is not an issue at all, and that is for sure.

Actually, Arctic's Penske did have the reservoir on his 8900E "919 Special". They probably made the same conclusion then regarding it's necessity to meet the design/performance spec.

Penske Install......

brokerecord · 08-07-2011, 02:46 PM

What difference does it make how you preload the spring?
The only difference I see is the screw in or out remote type has an unlimited number of spring lengths, while the collar type has only 6 lengths.
Then again you don't need a one pound tool everywhere you go like with the collar.
I forgot the remote "LOOKS" like a racing shock.

**Ottawa919** · 08-07-2011, 02:55 PM

I think it would be handy for quick adjustments for two-up riding. On the track, racers use it for quick tuning to conditions such as rain. Only the former might apply to most of us.

AllanB · 08-12-2011, 01:36 AM

Remote reservior. It all depends on the quality of the shock.

The stock one has a remote ..........

My Ohlins does not..................

Night and day difference in performance.

I will be interested in a decent ride report on the Hagon as it was a very good price.

PAULIBIKER · 08-24-2011, 10:52 AM

I backed off the preload a little bit and right in the middle adjustment(adjustment screw does both compression & damping) is just about right for 60-70 MPH or below. I need to click it up a little bit for higher speeds or worst roads. Mid corner bumps are controlled, not gone but controlled. I know what to expect now. No more "kicking out" from the rear.

The ride quality continues to impress me.

I'm really having a hard time with the front end now that I fixed the rear. I dropped the tubes back to OE height and cranked up the pre-load. They just compress too much in fast corners and braking. I my add some more fork oil to lessen the air gap.

Go figure................fix one thing and another shows up.

Blackheart · 08-24-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER

I backed off the preload a little bit and right in the middle adjustment(adjustment screw does both compression & damping) is just about right for 60-70 MPH or below. I need to click it up a little bit for higher speeds or worst roads. Mid corner bumps are controlled, not gone but controlled. I know what to expect now. No more "kicking out" from the rear.

The ride quality continues to impress me.

I'm really having a hard time with the front end now that I fixed the rear. I dropped the tubes back to OE height and cranked up the pre-load. They just compress too much in fast corners and braking. I my add some more fork oil to lessen the air gap.

Go figure................fix one thing and another shows up.

That rear kick-out almost caused me to sell the bike when I first got it. Ohlins rear shock fixed that. THEN, just as you note, the front is just too squirrelly for my tastes/abilities. Ohlins fixed THAT, too! I'm afraid any tweaking you do, such as more oil, etc., won't fix the front end to your satisfaction, especially if the rear shock is really working well. Once you get both ends working like they should, it's a HUGE improvement in quality of handling.

boogunoogun · 08-24-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER

I backed off the preload a little bit and right in the middle adjustment(adjustment screw does both compression & damping) is just about right for 60-70 MPH or below. I need to click it up a little bit for higher speeds or worst roads. Mid corner bumps are controlled, not gone but controlled. I know what to expect now. No more "kicking out" from the rear.

The ride quality continues to impress me.

I'm really having a hard time with the front end now that I fixed the rear. I dropped the tubes back to OE height and cranked up the pre-load. They just compress too much in fast corners and braking. I my add some more fork oil to lessen the air gap.

Go figure................fix one thing and another shows up.

The traxxion kit with maxima 10w racing oil works GREAT for the front end. I spent $135 total. Best money Ive spent on the 919 yet. very easy kit too. Pre-cut preload spacers. Its a nice kit

LeatherWings · 08-26-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanB

I'd bet your eye to eye length is the same - it is running better hydraulics now and does not sag under the bikes weight so much etc thus the higher feel/sitting.

ok, so the Hagon is 284mm eye-to-eye, which is essentially the same as stock, but it makes the bike ride a lil higher now... so does that mean that what you're saying, AllanB, is in fact the case then?

As someone with short legs, i really don't want my 919 riding any higher than it already does, and Hagon can make any of their shocks with a shorter length... so i'm wondering how much shorter would the shock have to be made for it to ride the same as stock with a 178-lb fully geared rider? I suppose i should just give 'em a call/email...

PAULIBIKER, i'm glad the Hagon is workin out for ya. Does that mean you're gonna be parting with your stock shock...?

**Ottawa919** · 08-26-2011, 12:32 PM

Set up properly, it shouldn't ride higher. Rider sag is rider sag. In otherwords, when you sit on the bike with the stock shock and it's set to sag 30 mm's (or whatever) and you sit on the bike with the hogan and it's set to sag 30 mm then there's obviously no difference in ride height, in general.

**LDH** · 08-26-2011, 01:15 PM

Well kinda... Rider sag is rider sag until the bike is in motion then other factors come into play with the proper definition of rider sag which is actually called dynamic sag. Take for instance that some shocks use top-out springs which alter the overall length of the shock and how it rides within the stroke limits for the same rider weight compared to using a shock without a top-out spring.

AllanB · 08-26-2011, 01:51 PM

What LDH said. My Ohlins does indeed ride higher on the road despite having the same eye to eye measurement. You are dealing with a unit that is significantly more competent than the stock one - every bump, undulation, throttle movement etc is transformed into the suspension in some form. The stock unit reacts to these inputs and transmits them directly to the bike and rider, the Ohlins just deals with it and lets you get on with riding! I think it is the vastly better hydraulics in the unit that keep the ride height more consistent in application, thus slightly higher. Or I may be full of shit!

Whatever the reason it is soooo much better.

**Ottawa919** · 08-26-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter

Well kinda... Rider sag is rider sag until the bike is in motion then other factors come into play with the proper definition of rider sag which is actually called dynamic sag. Take for instance that some shocks use top-out springs which alter the overall length of the shock and how it rides within the stroke limits for the same rider weight compared to using a shock without a top-out spring.

That is exactly why I said "in general". I did not want to complicate matters and the poster only referred to ride height in the context of being able to touch the ground comfortably, in which case rider sag is rider sag.

LeatherWings · 08-26-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa919

Set up properly, it shouldn't ride higher. Rider sag is rider sag. In otherwords, when you sit on the bike with the stock shock and it's set to sag 30 mm's (or whatever) and you sit on the bike with the hogan and it's set to sag 30 mm then there's obviously no difference in ride height, in general.

...

That is exactly why I said "in general". I did not want to complicate matters and the poster only referred to ride height in the context of being able to touch the ground comfortably, in which case rider sag is rider sag.

yeah, i guess i shoulda said "sitting higher" as opposed to "riding higher"...

ok, so just makin sure i got this right... what you're saying is that if the Hagon is making the bike sit higher than the OEM, it's essentially because it just currently has more preload on it?

ok, 'worthless' is a bit much, but nonetheless...

schrock86 · 08-26-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherWings

PAULIBIKER, i'm glad the Hagon is workin out for ya. Does that mean you're gonna be parting with your stock shock...?

Sure does

its already on my 9'er much better than than stock 02 rear.

LeatherWings · 08-26-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schrock86

Sure does

its already on my 9'er much better than than stock 02 rear.

what!? you have PAULIBIKER's shock? I thought I had dibs on it!? I got a PM to prove it!

schrock86 · 08-26-2011, 03:58 PM

I had pm'd him as well. Sorry man it might have helped my case that we live 20mi apart.

I do have a spare 07 spring if you are interested in that. I had thought about sending my stock 02 shock with that 07 spring to that guy zaq123 used.

**Ottawa919** · 08-26-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherWings

yeah, i guess i shoulda said "sitting higher" as opposed to "riding higher"...

ok, so just makin sure i got this right... what you're saying is that if the Hagon is making the bike sit higher than the OEM, it's essentially because it just currently has more preload on it?

ok, 'worthless' is a bit much, but nonetheless...

If you were comparing two identical shocks with identical spring rates, then yes. Unfortunately, we are talking about two different shocks with, most likely, different spring rates.

Differences in rider sag adjustment before and after, regardless of the spring rates is the simplest way to view the differences in how the bike is sitting (at rest!).

LeatherWings · 08-26-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schrock86

I had pm'd him as well. Sorry man it might have helped my case that we live 20mi apart.

son of a %@#$! oh well... i guess i'll just be postin' a WTB thread... :/

Quote:

I do have a spare 07 spring if you are interested in that. I had thought about sending my stock 02 shock with that 07 spring to that guy zaq123 used.

hmmm, perhaps... if i get my stock shock rebuilt, i might go with a Hyperco/Ohlins spring or whatever. UNLESS... you guys think that an '07 spring would be a marked improvement over the '02 spring for a ~178 lb fully-geared rider like myself

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa919

If you were comparing two identical shocks with identical spring rates, then yes. Unfortunately, we are talking about two different shocks with, most likely, different spring rates.

Differences in rider sag adjustment before and after, regardless of the spring rates is the simplest way to view the differences in how the bike is sitting (at rest!).

hmm, this is what it says from one of Hagon's USA distributors...

"Hagon's Monoshocks are designed with enough adjustment to accomodate the average rider with pillion and luggage. However, if you are well padded, carry a heavy pillion a large percentage of the time, and load up your saddlebags and topcase for frequent road trips or tow a trailer, Hagons may feel you require an uprated spring and valving. Lighter than standard riders can often also be accomodated with lightened springs and valving. On receipt of your loading details (see ORDERING HAGON MONOSHOCKS) Hagons will build a special shock for your application..."

so in theory, you'd think that they should be able to make me one that sits (at rest) the same height as OEM shock... properly adjusted...

mcromo44 · 08-26-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherWings

son of a %@#$! oh well... i guess i'll just be postin' a WTB thread... :/

hmmm, perhaps... if i get my stock shock rebuilt, i might go with a Hyperco/Ohlins spring or whatever. UNLESS... you guys think that an '07 spring would be a marked improvement over the '02 spring for a ~178 lb fully-geared rider like myself

hmm, this is what it says from one of Hagon's USA distributors...

"Hagon's Monoshocks are designed with enough adjustment to accomodate the average rider with pillion and luggage. However, if you are well padded, carry a heavy pillion a large percentage of the time, and load up your saddlebags and topcase for frequent road trips or tow a trailer, Hagons may feel you require an uprated spring and valving. Lighter than standard riders can often also be accomodated with lightened springs and valving. On receipt of your loading details (see ORDERING HAGON MONOSHOCKS) Hagons will build a special shock for your application..."

so in theory, you'd think that they should be able to make me one that sits (at rest) the same height as OEM shock... properly adjusted...

A early shock has a too hard 1200 # spring on it.
A Hagon will be properly sprung and therefore be softer.
So, with equivalent free sag, the rider sag will be greater, and seeing as the eye to eye is the same, the Hagon will sit lower.
A later shock has a too soft 900 # or so spring on it.
A Hagon will be properly sprung and therefore be firmer.
So, with equivalent free sag, the rider sag will be less, and seeing as the eye to eye is the same, the Hagon will sit higher.
It's that basic, and that simple.
If you want properly sprung and properly sagged AND a lower seat height, the ONLY thing you can do is shorten the eye to eye distance.
Eye to eye in terms of extended length that is.
IF the Hagon design will allow that - intended or otherwise.

LeatherWings · 08-26-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcromo44

A early shock has a too hard 1200 # spring on it.
A Hagon will be properly sprung and therefore be softer.
So, with equivalent free sag, the rider sag will be greater, and seeing as the eye to eye is the same, the Hagon will sit lower.
A later shock has a too soft 900 # or so spring on it.
A Hagon will be properly sprung and therefore be firmer.
So, with equivalent free sag, the rider sag will be less, and seeing as the eye to eye is the same, the Hagon will sit higher.
It's that basic, and that simple.
If you want properly sprung and properly sagged AND a lower seat height, the ONLY thing you can do is shorten the eye to eye distance.
Eye to eye in terms of extended length that is.
IF the Hagon design will allow that - intended or otherwise.

Well then it seems as though the Hagon should work fine for me. Time to start saving up...

CBnotAnRR · 09-08-2011, 06:54 PM

Hey All,
I'm new to the forums and with 50k on the clock of my CB, I'm long over due for a rear shock.

Being limited on funding, I'm interested in this Hagon and have a few questions. After reading this thread, I didn't see where you bought the Hagon? Also, was $410 delivered on Sale or normal pricing? Lastly, what kind of delivery time are we talking about? Days? Weeks?

Thanks,
Jay

Toast · 09-08-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBnotAnRR

Hey All,
I'm new to the forums and with 50k on the clock of my CB, I'm long over due for a rear shock.

Being limited on funding, I'm interested in this Hagon and have a few questions. After reading this thread, I didn't see where you bought the Hagon? Also, was $410 delivered on Sale or normal pricing? Lastly, what kind of delivery time are we talking about? Days? Weeks?

Thanks,
Jay

Hey there neighbor.

I'm strongly considering a Hagon as well. Maybe we can have an installation party? haha

Toast · 09-08-2011, 08:31 PM

Here's the US Hagon Distributor.
Hagon Monos

CBnotAnRR · 09-09-2011, 11:40 AM

thx. I just emailed them!

**Ottawa919** · 09-09-2011, 12:16 PM

Anyone who gets one: please report back on its performance and set up. I am particularly curious how the sag setup is with the "universal" spring.

mcromo44 · 09-09-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa919

Anyone who gets one: please report back on its performance and set up. I am particularly curious how the sag setup is with the "universal" spring.

Universal springs are in the same league as universal condom sizes.

**g00gl3it** · 09-09-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Universal springs are in the same league as universal condom sizes.

What, that they don't fit Indian men?

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Condoms 'too big' for Indian men

No offense intended for anyone of Indian ethnicity...all in good fun!

**Ottawa919** · 09-09-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Universal springs are in the same league as universal condom sizes.

Good point, but invalid IF the universal spring happens to be right for my weight. Big if, but here's hoping.

mcromo44 · 09-09-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawa919

Good point, but invalid IF the universal spring happens to be right for my weight. Big if, but here's hoping.

Unless the so called universal spring is a progressive design .........

**LDH** · 09-09-2011, 02:35 PM

Progressive =

mcromo44 · 09-09-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDH

Progressive =

Aye tae tha'
Progressive Rate = Universally Bad with the sole exception of one deflection distance at some instant in time, that would invariably still result in a less than advantageous rear chassis ride height.

CBnotAnRR · 09-16-2011, 02:17 PM

ah, I couldn't wait 5-6 weeks and found a Pro 420, so I went with it.

**Ottawa919** · 09-16-2011, 02:27 PM

Cool. Can you post more information? Please let us know how it works for you, maybe do it in a new thread since it isn't the Hagon.

LeatherWings · 09-16-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDH

Progressive =

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcromo44

Aye tae tha'
Progressive Rate = Universally Bad with the sole exception of one deflection distance at some instant in time, that would invariably still result in a less than advantageous rear chassis ride height.

so a progressive spring is still bad even for a linkageless design of a 919?