I posted the following thread on the 919 forum. G & J will custom fabricate SS brake lines for any bike at similar price savings. All you would need to do is send them your OEM lines. You can call G & J directly at (909) 986 6534. Tell them you are a Wrist Twister member.
Good news people.
G & J called, they have my OEM lines. They are now ready to take orders.
These prices are the best I have ever seen.
$54.00 for (2) Front lines/with color covering + longer banjo bolt + banjo washers
$22.00 for (1) Rear line/with color covering + banjo washers
$70.00 for the kit which includes the Front lines, Rear line, banjo bolt, and banjo washers.
You can call G & J directly at (909) 986 6534. Tell them you are a Wrist Twister member.
A big round of applause goes out to Rob Tharalson for laying the ground work with G & J.
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Will they come and install them too?
I HATE bleeding brake lines!!
For years, I have been using this method of bleeding brakes on motorcycles and cars, and it has always worked well, even when starting with a dry system. It is very effective when replacing lines with braided, wastes practically no fluid, and takes (once you make the adapter needed) about 2 minutes.
You will need a Mightyvac or some other controllable vacuum source and a clear plexiglass or Lexan plate large enough to cover the top of the reservoir. Contact cement a piece of inner tube rubber (you remember inner tubes?) to the plate to provide a seal against the reservoir, remembering to leave some clear exposed so you can see what's going on. Drill and tap (or glue, use a gun drilled bolt and nut, whatever, as long as it seals) for a fitting to attach the vacuum hose, and thoroughly clean and dry everything.
1 -- If replacing the lines, drain the fluid, install the lines, and make sure they are routed and tightened properly.
2 -- Clean the master cylinder reservoir and fill about 2/3 with fresh fluid.
3 -- Place the plate on top of the reservoir and secure with some wire -- not too tightly, just to hold it in place.
4 -- Apply a vacuum to the system slowly. You will see air bubbling through the fluid, but the level should not drop much. Stop as soon as you have applied as much vacuum as you can -- it does not need a "hard" vacuum, about 23 inches HG should be sufficient.
5 -- Release the vacuum. The fluid level should drop significantly, in fact the first time it may empty the reservoir.
6 -- Refill the reservoir and repeat steps 3 through 5.
7 -- By the third cycle, you should not see any air bubbles.
8 -- Refill the reservoir again and pump up the brakes -- the vacuum usually retracts the pistons completely. Top up the reservoir, apply the brakes as hard as you usually do, and check for leaks. You should have as firm a lever as you have ever felt!
Notes:
-- If the master cylinder is angled down, it helps to get it as close to horizontal as possible to give air an easier escape route.
-- Sometims, fluid will be drawn up the vacuum hose, so make sure it does not get into the pump by using a long downward "U" loop of hose.
-- If and when you try this, post the results, especially if you have problems -- some calipers, Brembos particularly, can be very difficult to remove air from.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Those are great prices. I was about to order some Galfers because you can get gold banjo ends and gold banjo bolts but for less than half the price I might just give these a try. Thanks Mike!
__________________
Four wheels move the body ... two wheels move the soul.
This might be a stupid question, but did the lines you sent to G&J for the front master on your 919 have 3 lines? One line from the master to a y connector and then two lines to the caliper?
This might be a stupid question, but did the lines you sent to G&J for the front master on your 919 have 3 lines? One line from the master to a y connector and then two lines to the caliper?
I read the earlier posts by you and rob, but I'm still confused. Does the one longer banjo bolt then connect the two lines to the one hole in the master? Help me understand...
I read the earlier posts by you and rob, but I'm still confused. Does the one longer banjo bolt then connect the two lines to the one hole in the master? Help me understand...
Yes. You end up with the lines stacked and copper washers between each piece.
I just got a call from G & J, I guess since mine are the first set they are making they told me to give them a call after I have them installed to make sure they fit alright. Should be fun, I have never installed brake lines before, but I am willing to learn for sure! I'll let you all know how it turns out.
I just got a call from G & J, I guess since mine are the first set they are making they told me to give them a call after I have them installed to make sure they fit alright. Should be fun, I have never installed brake lines before, but I am willing to learn for sure! I'll let you all know how it turns out.
We are always here to help. The important thing with new lines is to check for proper length. After installation, rotate the bars fully left then fully right. Look for no stretching(too short) and no binding(too long)
Installing the lines is very straight forward. Long line on the left, wait to final torque till everything is routed how you want. The bleeding is the PIA. Once you have a system down it goes pretty easy.
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
The better way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
Well it sounds like you'll be bleeding my brake lines with your "useful information"!
Actually in your case I'd be using my alternative method. I didn't post it earlier owing to the fact that most people are heavily into instant gratification and would rather spend 5 minutes to do something that can also take many hours.
It is quite a bit more involved: getting to know everything possible rather than just focusing on one aspect; taking your time to be sure everything is just right; proceeding slowly at first while paying attention to feedback received; making sure your desire to complete the task takes everything into account rather than just getting it over with; and being willing to start from the beginning again, this time armed with knowledge gained from your previous endeavours. In this way you know you have done your best and the satisfaction is considerably greater. Either method acheives the same result, so I leave it to you to decide which you would prefer.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Actually in your case I'd be using my alternative method. I didn't post it earlier owing to the fact that most people are heavily into instant gratification and would rather spend 5 minutes to do something that can also take many hours.
It is quite a bit more involved: getting to know everything possible rather than just focusing on one aspect; taking your time to be sure everything is just right; proceeding slowly at first while paying attention to feedback received; making sure your desire to complete the task takes everything into account rather than just getting it over with; and being willing to start from the beginning again, this time armed with knowledge gained from your previous endeavours. In this way you know you have done your best and the satisfaction is considerably greater. Either method acheives the same result, so I leave it to you to decide which you would prefer.
Rob
If you were to show up and bleed my brake lines I wouldn't let you use your "alternative method", do you think I would walk away from you, pull up a lawn chair with a drink? I would be driving you crazy asking and offering with your guidance to do it instead so that I could learn from someone who has something to teach.
I do most of the maintenance on my bikes and I didn't take shop courses, that's from absorbing everything I could off everyone around me who was willing to share their information. Show me something once and next time I'm doing it by myself.
If someone else has found a way of making a task more efficient, by all means I want to know. Not to take the easy way out but to understand and learn from someone who has more experience with that certain task.
Ask some of the guys here about my chain cleaning! I'm very meticulous with it to the point it drives some crazy!
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
Uhhh, yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyChick
If you were to show up and bleed my brake lines I wouldn't let you use your "alternative method", do you think I would walk away from you, pull up a lawn chair with a drink?
Sporty:
Has the appreciation of innuendo and double entendre died completely? Too subtle! Ah, well.
The procedure I described is by far the easiest and quickest way to bleed any hydraulic system that is not designed to self bleed. Years of experience have shown this. In point of fact, when I was working on cars an owner filled his master cylinder reservoir with power steering fluid, destroying every piece of rubber in the entire braking system including the ABS modulator. After replacing ALL the components the normal bleed procedure takes over 2 hours, but with my method it took 10 minutes starting with a completely dry system. When Honda heard of this, they came to the shop with a car they had drained all brake fluid from and had me demonstrate -- and two representatives missed it when they went to get coffee. It's that fast and effective.
So if I'm going to travel 2,600 miles to stand there with my hands in my pockets while describing how to "bleed your brakes", you had better want to learn considerably more than that! In fact an entire day of tweaking and adjusting things would be a minimum. Let me know if you would like me to teach you, and be prepared to buy a Mityvac and a round trip ticket to Toronto from LAX. Oh, and I'd cook my famous brisket and beer for you as well.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Actually in your case I'd be using my alternative method. I didn't post it earlier owing to the fact that most people are heavily into instant gratification and would rather spend 5 minutes to do something that can also take many hours.
It is quite a bit more involved: getting to know everything possible rather than just focusing on one aspect; taking your time to be sure everything is just right; proceeding slowly at first while paying attention to feedback received; making sure your desire to complete the task takes everything into account rather than just getting it over with; and being willing to start from the beginning again, this time armed with knowledge gained from your previous endeavours. In this way you know you have done your best and the satisfaction is considerably greater. Either method acheives the same result, so I leave it to you to decide which you would prefer.
Rob
Well, your "alternative method" is quite the double entendre, no?
Does anyone have a tip for getting the banjos sealed at the master cylinder? I have been trying to get these lines on when I have a chance and its not 110 degrees in the garage. I have installed new copper washers between each component, but it just keeps leaking between the master and the first washer. I have tried two different copper washers, one of the original steel(?) washers, and just cranking down tighter. If I go any tighter I am going to tear the threads right off one of the pieces. I even tried swapping the two lines, but it looks like it is leaking between the master and the first washer. The mating surfaces all appear clean and not scratched.
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
Generally, when copper washers are tightened down they conform to the two surfaces bearing against them and work harden, so torquing them and taking them back apart will leave them too hard to properly seal for a second try. In order to get them to seal you will have to anneal them by hanging them on a piece of thin steel wire, heating with a propane torch until they have a uniform dull red glow, then plunge them into a bucket of room temperature water. They will now be soft enough to form a seal. Clean them up, lubricate all sealing surfaces and threads with brake fluid, and try again.
The specified torque for the banjo bolts is 25 ft/lbs, but I have read reliable reports of more torque being required to properly seal the extra banjo and washer, so apply about 30 ft/lbs and see what happens. As a long time mechanic I have found that when tightening crush washers of this type there is a particular feel I shoot for -- as they are being tightened everything will feel normal until the copper starts to crush, then it feels for all the world like the bolt is turning but not getting any tighter: this is the copper crushing and conforming to the surfaces of the master cylinder and banjo fittings. Once you feel this do not stop turning the bolt until you feel the effort start to increase again, indicating the copper has started to work harden. There is a complication when more than two washers are involved -- despite the assumption that force is evenly applied to all parts between the head of the bolt and the end of the master it seems that the washers crush starting with the one closest to the head and working inward, so the last one may not be getting enough force to completely crush properly, causing the leak you noticed.
It may take several tighten / dammit it's leaking / remove and anneal / tighten cycles before you get it sealed properly, but such is a learning curve.
Don't worry, you will get everything installed and bled soon enough, just be patient and take your time. If you continue to have problems don't hesitate to PM me and I'll see what I can do to help.
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Does anyone have a tip for getting the banjos sealed at the master cylinder? I have been trying to get these lines on when I have a chance and its not 110 degrees in the garage. I have installed new copper washers between each component, but it just keeps leaking between the master and the first washer. I have tried two different copper washers, one of the original steel(?) washers, and just cranking down tighter. If I go any tighter I am going to tear the threads right off one of the pieces. I even tried swapping the two lines, but it looks like it is leaking between the master and the first washer. The mating surfaces all appear clean and not scratched.
Another possibility, G&J might have supplied the wrong bolt. The bolt should be 1-1/2" overall, 1-1/4" without the head and has 1/2" of threads. You might have one that is 1.5" not including the head, and which is 0.25"(1/4") inch too long.
Location: Santa Maria, CA Otherwise known as heaven on earth.
Posts: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike
Another possibility, G&J might have supplied the wrong bolt. The bolt should be 1-1/2" overall, 1-1/4" without the head and has 1/2" of threads. You might have one that is 1.5" not including the head, and which is 0.25"(1/4") inch too long.
Mike:
Knowing that they made that mistake once, I checked the bolt for length when I picked up the lines and it was correct. Actually, to prevent that from happening again they prepackaged a bunch of the bolts and washers in little plastic bags. When I mentioned it to Zach he said "We never make the same mistake twice ... it's bad for business!"
Infinitely adjustable, made of the finest materials available, and completely sourced from local suppliers -- gotta support the local economy! Order today and know handlebar Nirvana.
Thanks Rob, your heat treating method worked like a charm, and my fronts are done. I was able to ride it to work this week, now just need to do the rear.
Can i just order the set and take them to my honda dealer? Is it worth the 50 bucks an hour labor for them to do it or should i just crack open the ol' manual and try and do it myself? Im not very savy when it comes to bike stuff but everyone here tells me that as long as you have the service manual, nothing is to hard!
Can i just order the set and take them to my honda dealer? Is it worth the 50 bucks an hour labor for them to do it or should i just crack open the ol' manual and try and do it myself? Im not very savy when it comes to bike stuff but everyone here tells me that as long as you have the service manual, nothing is to hard!
The ol' manual is not going to give you details or hands on know-how to perform this task. IMO brakes are not something for a newbie wrench to be messing around with. Stripped caliper/master cylinder threads, leaks, air in the lines just to mention a few. Others might tell you to go ahead and do it. It's your decision.
I bought a pair of these and spent the better part of about four hours trying to bleed them. I've tried the old squeeze method. i attempted to replicate the suction method with a not so controlled hand suction device. The honda dealer down the street said that they "have a $300 tool that does it and you can't possibly bleed the lines yourself." They quoted me about $35 to bleed the lines. Just thought i'd drop a line here before i shell that out.
Thanks in advance
I bought a pair of these and spent the better part of about four hours trying to bleed them. I've tried the old squeeze method. i attempted to replicate the suction method with a not so controlled hand suction device. The honda dealer down the street said that they "have a $300 tool that does it and you can't possibly bleed the lines yourself." They quoted me about $35 to bleed the lines. Just thought i'd drop a line here before i shell that out.
Thanks in advance
if there is a harbor freight tools nearby go there and buy the bleeding tool for about 10 bucks..
or there are 1000000000 different methods for bleeding brakes... all involve patience and someone helping you...
the way i did mine last week was start at farthest one... leave top off master cylinder... remove line from caliper... watch until fluid is running out... then reattach line... tap on caliper... pump handle.... hold... open bleeder... close bleeder... pump handle.... repeat.... repeat... make sure there is brake fluid.... repeat... untill there is no more air bubbling out...
do closer line exactly the same...
repeatedly tap on brake lines... master cylinder... calipers... etc to help move air out the lines....
it should only take about 10 mins or so to do it properly..
make sure the bleeders are completely closed before moving the lever otherwise your just sucking air back into the lines...
The better way.
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