HID kit - An Improvement ?

Mayday · 12-08-2011, 08:56 AM

Saw this on ebay and wanted to throw it out there. Thoughts on this? Improvement or waste of money? I know the 919 doesn't have a projector so would it just blind oncoming drivers or is this setup somehow different? Sorry I'm ignorant on hid stuff.

05 06 07 Honda 919-CB900 HID Xenon SLIM Motorcycle Kit | eBay

Pvster · 12-08-2011, 11:47 AM

no projector = big waste of money.

plus they're uber cheap Chinese knockoffs which means the ballasts will go bad quickly after a number of heat cycles.

putting a HID into a 919 headlight is a really bad thing to do as then it just becomes one giant spotlight of glare.

Bigdaa · 12-08-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvster

no projector = big waste of money.

plus they're uber cheap Chinese knockoffs which means the ballasts will go bad quickly after a number of heat cycles.

putting a HID into a 919 headlight is a really bad thing to do as then it just becomes one giant spotlight of glare.

I guess in a nutshell, this is what I wanted to say, but I was busy shopping for a new PC here at work (what with me being a forced short-timer with little to motivate me)

Tackleberry · 12-08-2011, 02:30 PM

I had a HID like that one and yes there is a HUGE amount of glare!

But I found the 2nd best thing to having a projector for an HID, it's this HID setup. The cutoff is the next best thing to having a projector (almost, if not better than the stock light), and the high beam is great as well! No problem with people flashing me with there hi-beams because of glare. Only thing is that the ballast is not included.

CB700S · 12-08-2011, 03:50 PM

There is a way to do it without a projector and without generating a ton of defocused glare, guys.

**rmb** · 12-08-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB700S

There is a way to do it without a projector and without generating a ton of defocused glare, guys.

I'll bite, how?

CB700S · 12-08-2011, 10:26 PM

Tackleberry mentioned it, you have to choose a retrofit with the appropriate cutoff/shroud around it. I'm pretty sure he got it from me, because I posted it here: What have u done for your bike today??

Mayday · 12-09-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB700S

Tackleberry mentioned it, you have to choose a retrofit with the appropriate cutoff/shroud around it. I'm pretty sure he got it from me, because I posted it here: What have u done for your bike today??

Light output looks great, thanks CB for the info. Gonna look around and see if I can come up with a similar setup. Do you remember roughly what you paid for the kit?

CB700S · 12-09-2011, 08:14 AM

Mayday, you know where I live so if you want you can come over today or this evening and take a look at my setup.

You actually weren't far off with the one you posted, I got both of mine from the same supplier. The first one I got was a couple of years ago for my CB700SC and it worked great (had to use a different type light with that one as it already had the appropriate cutoffs and shrouds inside its headlight) so once I got the 919 I bought another from them.

This is the exact kit I bought for the 919: Honda Motorcycle HID Xenon Kit High Low H4 Bi | eBay

Sadly, as is common for such merchants, the kit they list as working specifically for the 919 will generate glare and annoyance as it isn't properly shrouded. In fact, it's the same type I used for the 700.

CouJoe56 · 12-09-2011, 08:34 AM

my HID has the shroud, and isnt that blinding to motorists. But in reality, i kinda want to blind people, at least they will see me right?

CB700S · 12-09-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CouJoe56

my HID has the shroud, and isnt that blinding to motorists. But in reality, i kinda want to blind people, at least they will see me right?

No, then they run into you - the moth-to-a-flame effect.

Pvster · 12-09-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB700S

This is the exact kit I bought for the 919: Honda Motorcycle HID Xenon Kit High Low H4 Bi | eBay

Sadly, as is common for such merchants, the kit they list as working specifically for the 919 will generate glare and annoyance as it isn't properly shrouded. In fact, it's the same type I used for the 700.

of course it produces glare! notice it states the following:

Quote:

Fits all vehicles which that have projector or reflector headlights.

with all HIDS you need to have a proper projector or a reflector headlight that's been designed to run HIDS. otherwise you get some sort of glare no matter what the proposed solution might be. that's why projectors were designed to use with HIDS.

CB700S · 12-09-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvster

of course it produces glare! notice it states the following:

with all HIDS you need to have a proper projector or a reflector headlight that's been designed to run HIDS. otherwise you get some sort of glare no matter what the proposed solution might be. that's why projectors were designed to use with HIDS.

Strangely, I have a car that mounts headlights that were fitted with HID lights from the factory as an option. The maker only changed the light source and fitted auto leveling motors instead of adjustment screws, the actual lens and reflector are the same part number.

They are not projectors and they passed DOT just fine.

Projectors predate the deployment of HID lights on cars, too.

And yes, this setup does produce some glare but only from directly above looking down at the light capsule, call it about 5 degrees off vertical. From any angle that oncoming traffic is going to see it at, it is fine. I have compared it to a GL1800 which came with HIDs and they are extremely similar from the viewpoint of traffic. The only people who will see glare is a passing helicopter overhead. Pretty sure that doesn't matter much.

Is it as good as fabricating a projector setup? No. But it is safe for all concerned as a practical matter and it is a cheap upgrade.

Pvster · 12-09-2011, 10:56 AM

ok you have my interest... is there a similar set up that is single beamed? i have a 599 headlight i'd like to see if it would be feasible to do something similar.

CB700S · 12-09-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvster

ok you have my interest... is there a similar set up that is single beamed? i have a 599 headlight i'd like to see if it would be feasible to do something similar.

Quite frankly, I have no idea since I've not had occasion to look into it - none of my vehicles would need a shrouded single beam retrofit. I can do some research and look, though. What type bulb does the 599 headlight use, and does the 599 expose the tip of the bulb like the 919 does?

Pvster · 12-09-2011, 11:14 AM

yeah the 599 exposes the tip same as the 919, but uses h11 bulbs if i remember correctly.

CB700S · 12-09-2011, 11:45 AM

A quick look through the research I did when figuring this out the first time seems to indicate that there is no such offering for H11s. In which case, I would strongly recommend against sticking any HID bulb upgrades in that housing, specifically for the reasons you mentioned above. I can't imagine getting anything approaching acceptable results without at least a tip shield (the lack of which is what seems to generate a lot of glare issues, IMHO). I suppose one could fabricate something - that's probably where these shrouded units started out, someone ran into the same problem and decided to try to fix it.

Also, any interested parties who find themselves in the area are more than welcome to come examine the setup to see for themselves how well it does or does not work.

***

For those that may read this thread later: You can't just throw any random HID upgrade into the headlight housing and expect to get good results; only this one type seems to work (out of those available as of the time of this post.) All of the other types will generate unacceptable beam patterns or blind oncoming traffic - both bad things. Pvster's admonishments are well founded and something that should be carefully considered before planning an HID upgrade.

If you are looking at this thread with an eye to upgrading a non-919 light, keep in mind that as discussed immediately above not all housings or bulb types will lend themselves to safe upgrades. Some simply will never be acceptably upgradable. Also, a projector is the correct way to go for maximum performance if your budget allows for it or if your stock setup isn't upgradable. (Again, just because you can physically fit an HID upgrade into the housing does not make it a good idea or mean that it will actually work well!) Fortunately, the stock 919 setup appears to be.

CB700S · 12-10-2011, 03:09 PM

From the 'seeing-is-believing' department - judge for yourselves.

These are the actual unretouched photos of the beam pattern post-shrouded-HID. The last one is much dimmer than in reality as my camera decided to change the exposure for some reason.

The following is a panoramic picture put together out of several shots. I had to bump up the brightness, contrast and saturation to show up the beam pattern and throw of the light properly. Otherwise it is unretouched.

Full 5366x2026 version here.

I'm not seeing "a giant spotlight of glare" here.

I'm seeing reasonable throw, a DOT-compliant vertical cutoff and good lateral spread.

Edit: Just to be clear, this is the type I installed:

**rmb** · 12-10-2011, 03:36 PM

Looks pretty good to me!

Tackleberry · 12-10-2011, 04:48 PM

Yes! CB700S Is the source of my decovery, and I thank you for it!

Pvster · 12-10-2011, 06:11 PM

i'm impressed... the light isn't as refined as a projector output but nonetheless very impressive in the 919 bucket.

i however want to retain the 599 headlight as i think it looks so much better than the 919 light. a quick search revealed the seller has h11 conversion kits but i didnt spot any of the metal shrouds so i emailed the seller asking them if they had a H11 conversion kid with the metal shrouds. hopefully they do!

CB700S · 12-10-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvster

i'm impressed... the light isn't as refined as a projector output but nonetheless very impressive in the 919 bucket.

Yeah, as I said a projector is the best performing upgrade, but then this doesn't have the pricetag of a projector setup either. :P

So you agree that this is a viable option, then?

Quote:

i however want to retain the 599 headlight as i think it looks so much better than the 919 light. a quick search revealed the seller has h11 conversion kits but i didnt spot any of the metal shrouds so i emailed the seller asking them if they had a H11 conversion kid with the metal shrouds. hopefully they do!

I hope they do, because that would help not only conversions like what you have but the 599s and several other bikes that use the H11.

velodesign · 12-10-2011, 10:24 PM

Where did you put your ballast?

CB700S · 12-10-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velodesign

Where did you put your ballast?

I used 3M body shop tape, no drilling needed and it's out where it should get some cooling air. The foam tape insulates the ballast from vibration as well.

I guess I really should write this up. :P

**rmb** · 12-11-2011, 04:01 AM

What's the power draw?

CB700S · 12-11-2011, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmb

What's the power draw?

It requires a brief burst of ~60 watts to strike the arc (i.e., turn on and begin producing light) but once it's established it only draws ~40 watts or so. 35 watts is used to sustain the arc and there's a little overhead for the ballast. The original Honda-equipped 9003 bulb was a 60/55w unit, so the HID uses the same power when it's starting up but drops down by a third once it's lit.

For comparison, the highest spec 'legal' (US 49CFR564) 9003 bulb you can fit to the 919 produces a maximum of 1580 +/-10% lumens from 72 watts. Lower wattage bulbs produce correspondingly less (down around 1100 for the standard issue one). Using the top EU-legal H4 isn't much better - ECE R37 says the max is 1680 lumens from 75 watts.

The HID produces 3200 lumens from its ~40 watts. It also runs cooler.

**rmb** · 12-11-2011, 04:27 PM

I think I may be sold to try one, that color range (Kelvin) are you using and how do you like it? I'm thinking the 4300K would be the best (whitest) output.

CB700S · 12-11-2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmb

I think I may be sold to try one, that color range (Kelvin) are you using and how do you like it? I'm thinking the 4300K would be the best (whitest) output.

That's correct, and I am using a 4300k setup in both bikes.

velodesign · 12-11-2011, 07:01 PM

sold, I'm going to try it...and report back sometime next spring...

CB700S · 12-11-2011, 09:15 PM

You will have to adjust the aim of the headlight slightly from the 'aligned marks' position listed in the manual - I had to adjust mine up a touch. Park your bike facing a wall and mark the stock light cutoff with some masking tape, do the install, then adjust it back to that position once you complete the install.

velodesign · 12-18-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB700S

You will have to adjust the aim of the headlight slightly from the 'aligned marks' position listed in the manual - I had to adjust mine up a touch. Park your bike facing a wall and mark the stock light cutoff with some masking tape, do the install, then adjust it back to that position once you complete the install.

my headlight is so easy to adjust up and down and doesn't always stay where I put it now after I installed the OEM flyscreen with it's brackets. Is your as easy to adjust by hand without loosening the side bolts as mine?

CB700S · 12-19-2011, 01:14 AM

No, mine is nice and snug - it can be adjusted by hand, but it takes significant effort.

BBB2 · 12-19-2011, 04:27 AM

What's the differance from what you installed as compared to this one

03 Honda 919-CB900 HIDXenon Hi & Lo Motorcycle Slim Kit | eBay

CB700S · 12-19-2011, 07:26 AM

That's the version I fitted to my 700. It doesn't have the tip shroud or a workable-for-919 bottom shroud and it uses a solenoid that tips the light capsule at an angle to give you a high beam.

Pretty much looks like this:

Works if you have some of the pre-shrouded type square headlights that some older Hondas have. Does NOT work (even though it fits) for the 919 - it will produce the infamous "giant spotlight of glare."

Saki GT · 12-20-2011, 02:24 PM

So the trick here really is to get an "H4 Bi" HID bulb" that has the shielded tip, right?

You could buy a kit from a company like DDM with actual warranty support, and then get the correct bulb, for example?

CB700S · 12-21-2011, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saki GT

So the trick here really is to get an "H4 Bi" HID bulb" that has the shielded tip, right?

You could buy a kit from a company like DDM with actual warranty support, and then get the correct bulb, for example?

Pretty much, yes. You need to have a tip shield and the bottom shield needs to look like the one pictured, which seems to be common. It also needs to be internally reflective (I.E., I don't think it would work very well if you painted the inside of my shield black, for example.) Other than that, I can't imagine why it would not work.

BBB2 · 12-21-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB700S

Pretty much, yes. You need to have a tip shield and the bottom shield needs to look like the one pictured, which seems to be common. It also needs to be internally reflective (I.E., I don't think it would work very well if you painted the inside of my shield black, for example.) Other than that, I can't imagine why it would not work.

Other than how you mounted the ballest, any tips on the wiring?